It plays a factor tho in people that do come out

But I think the issue is deeper

Also post transition surgery, doesn’t the suicide rate stay almost the same? Or am I talking out of my ass

I can't find evidence

If the trans suicide rate is as high as 40%, it's complete foolishness to say that the suicide rate doesn't have to do with the gender dysphoria, and only has to do with depression which is experienced due to societal mistreatment

attempted suicide rate*

@BobbyMack what are you trying to find evidence for?

> @BobbyMack what are you trying to find evidence for?
@kaizen His opinion 😄

I can't find evidence of whether or not the suicide rate changes or stays the same post-surgery

I found a report that says among teens, female to male trans suicide attempt rates are 50%, non binary 41%, male to female 29% and questioning teens at 27%

https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/142/4/e20174218

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/Suicidality-Transgender-Sep-2019.pdf

@BobbyMack what does the study show

" USTS respondents have the elevated risk of
suicide thoughts and attempts that one would expect based on general risk factors that affect the
U.S. population, such as substance use and serious psychological distress. Yet, it’s clear that minority
stress experiences, such as family rejection, discrimination experiences, and lack of access to genderaffirming health care, create added risks for transgender people. "

To me, this does seem in part absurd. I don't care how egalitarian you make our society, remove every one of those stressors and I don't think the trans suicide rate is then going to match the suicide rate of the general population

The absolute refusal to admit that trans individuals have an unfortunate disconnect with reality which causes a mental disorder is amazing to see

I agree with that

This site is a group that attempts to discuss the data surrounding some of the issues.


https://www.transgendertrend.com/the-suicide-myth/

That's a headline, the conclusion is more along the lines that the data is too weak to be used.

It takes 10 people in white coats to tell us how Trump is. He is doing very well apparently.

Do you doubt it?

Why do you need evidence about suicide rates to determine that transgenderism and the surgeries are unhealthy and a terrible idea?

Did you know men who get fake vaginas have to maintain it daily else it smells terribly? Or so I’ve read.

It doesn’t take a lot to realize how terrible an idea this is

It's nice to see such an open mind.

I had a reflection on something that happened in the debate. Trump brought up a possible cocaine addiction of Biden's son. Drug addiction is a medical and psychiatric disorder. Our current president berated a man's child for having a medical issue on live TV in order to win political points with his supporters.
What world do we live in?

Opinions?

I removed my cheap shot at JP

> The absolute refusal to admit that trans individuals have an unfortunate disconnect with reality which causes a mental disorder is amazing to see
@BobbyMack Are you sure that it's a total disconnect? We don't really understand much about why they're like that. But for example, if you tweak certain hormones in female mice, they'll start to hump other female mice in a manner similar to male mice, and I can kind of see how that sort of thing could give rise to a feeling like they're "supposed" to have a penis and would feel much more comfortable with one. Certainly we don't know all the specifics of how this may work in humans, but it lends some credibility to the notion there could be some biological mechanism which would cause a biological female to feel like they are "supposed" to have a penis and may relate conventional male bodies/psychology more.

There's other evidence for this being a legitimate biological phenomenon in humans too. Identical twins raised in different environments a more often both transgender than fraternal twins, which suggests a genetic component. Certain structures in the brain that tend to be sexually dimorphic are much more similar to a transgendered "prefered" gender than their born sex, i.e. parts of a transgendered women's brain which much more closely resemble cisgendered women than they do cisgendered men.

So I'm not sure it's fair to characterize transgendered people as completely delusional and mentally unwell, which lends some credibility to the idea that many of their mental health problems could be related to discrmination and lack of access to SRS treatment (especially given how considerable the discirimination they face often is). I'd also be curious what @ola @Malachi and @JPMcGlone think about this.

How dare you bring science into a raw, passionate, bareback-hunch fest!

for the most part I give no shits about what goes on between people's legs. as long as there is informed consent from all parties involved, do it.

I think that conversation about mental health is a virtuous one to have. However I also must relinquish my opinions to the professionals. There seems to be an inappropriate opinion that sex changes are done willy-nilly. I am sure that the full health of the patient including mental health is taken into account. That being said, in our for profit health care system the procedures likely vary in quality Significantly! Which is incredibly unfortunate for people whom wish to correct a biological mistake, but don't want to be in debt for the rest of their lives.

@Malachi what biological mistake are you referring to exactly?

I wasn't referring to any one exactly.

Sin is a legitimate human phenomena that we should avoid

Sin is a nonsense word.

@JPMcGlone what do you mean by sin

Sin is what separates people from God, and the reward of sin is death. I commit sin when I disobey God's will and break His laws.

Sin (from Latin peccatum) is an act, fact, word, thought, or omission to do good, contrary to what a particular religion considers to be the will of God. It consists in the violation of a law or a church order, a deviation from a religious norm, an iniquity, a guilty act, a mistake, a guilt. Sin means a violation of God's laws, a violation of the connection with him and his neighbor.

You may or may not agree, but that is a Sin from a theological perspective.

@Katelyn 2 main points:

Your point about hormone tweaking is well taken, however we must acknowledge that that can relate to a whole range of mental disorders. People can suffer from anorexia due to brain chemistry and their diet, which can affect their hormones and cause a negative feedback loop. If only we could tweak certain hormones, perhaps they wouldn't have a warped image of their body. But it doesn't mean they don't have a disconnect from reality. In other areas of their life, people with disorders can be completely functional. But concerning this one specific area (for anorexics, weight, for transgenders, genitalia) they don't see the world as it is.

Also, any study which brings up identical twins raised separately is not as credible as we'd like it to be. The sample size has historically been so tiny that any findings can be happenstance. Possible, but not statistically significant.

Lets hop in vc :)

@Yussuki ₪ zino. my god says that sin doesn't exist. What say you?

My God demands I sin twice a week.

I would say you should trust your God. You can always repent if you happen to meet mine when you get to be in Spirit. A loyal believer in good faith is always better than an opportunistic one.