Message from @εïз irma εïз
Discord ID: 488146203578597414
Do we agree that materialism is a term with a standard definition
You gave me the definition of materialism, which is a broad philosophy. I agree with the definition you gave, and firmly believe it applies here.
Okay, excellent.
You're reducing human existence to the material, aka, the spread of genes.
I do not believe that matter is the fundamental substance in nature, and that all things, including mental aspects and consciousness, are results of material interactions.
I believe that matter is ONE fundamental substance in nature along with the imaterial
So you may not be a materialist but what you're articulating is a firmly materialist position.
So consciousness is its own reality
And is not reducible to matter
Ideas for example the number zero is not reducible to matter
Materialists wouldn't argue that 0 is reducible to matter though.
Well materialism posits that everything is reducible to matter so to speak
A materialist would argue that we perpetuate our species through chemical impulses and morality is only based on what is expedient to that end.
right
In other words exactly what you're saying.
Have you met a materialist before? Lol I've never heard one say that
I've heard it a lot
"Materialist" usually is not someone who adheres to a strict philosophy.
Well in any case I think I laid out my case for why I can't possibly be a materialist based on my belief about reality
@The Big Oof my ip is 12345678910
I mean perhaps what you dislike about my moral system is that it doesn't deny the material world because you do
Many moral systems deny the material world
I don't like or dislike it. I'm just recognizing it for what it is.
Reality is comprised of matter and immaterial. Both elements are real and I reject neither.
I choose to recognize the value of matter and you choose to see this as a rejection of the imaterial
Your moral system is based on an impetus for reproduction. Given that we live in a world where we can reduce this to chemicals at the most reduced scale, the only logical conclusion from that position is materialism.
Absurd
If you ignore the material aspect to claim you aren't a materialist that seems like sophistry to me.
The only logical conclusion of my moral system is not materialism haha
The way you described it is exactly materialist. At this point I'm just repeating myself.
A good moral system should be able to account for the material world and argue based on it.
You don't have to deny the existence of immaterial reality to believe in my moral system
@Snakeisninja Is it ethical for a person to reproduce if their children will have serious diseases or disabilities?
Therefore the only logical conclusion of my moral system is not materialism
@The Big Oof based on what moral system? The moral system of the group that person belongs to or mine?
That's actually an interesting question
They normally shouldn't
Babies with down syndrome should also be aborted and it should be a legal requirement tbh
but I digress
You said the purpose of an organism is to spread its genes and this is the basis for morality. You argue that anything that isn't biologically utilitarian is immoral. This is fucking materialism. No way no how around it. If at any point I misrepresented you please explain why and how.