Message from @PebbЛe

Discord ID: 509131773901406210


2018-11-05 22:24:30 UTC  

So, is a husband a bourgeoisie?

2018-11-05 22:24:30 UTC  

Different material relations

2018-11-05 22:24:37 UTC  

No they're not

2018-11-05 22:24:43 UTC  

So, why Engels said that?

2018-11-05 22:24:49 UTC  

He didn't

2018-11-05 22:24:56 UTC  

I quoted him.

2018-11-05 22:25:23 UTC  

In what message exactly?

2018-11-05 22:25:34 UTC  

You can see that above. Just scroll up

2018-11-05 22:25:40 UTC  

You have two quotes from Marx, out of context, and that's all

2018-11-05 22:26:10 UTC  

<OUT OF CONTEXT> Ok

2018-11-05 22:26:10 UTC  

`In the great majority of cases today, at least in the possessing classes, the husband is obliged to earn a living and support his family, and that in itself gives him a position of supremacy, without any need for special legal titles and privileges. Within the family he is the bourgeois and the wife represents the proletariat. In the industrial world, the specific character of the economic oppression burdening the proletariat is visible in all its sharpness only when all special legal privileges of the capitalist class have been abolished and complete legal equality of both classes established. The democratic republic does not do away with the opposition of the two classes; on the contrary, it provides the clear field on which the fight can be fought out.`

2018-11-05 22:26:15 UTC  

he quoted a piece of this

2018-11-05 22:26:27 UTC  

which engels wrote to relativize the situation of supremacy of bourgeois over proletariat

2018-11-05 22:26:32 UTC  

that forms the basic economic unit

2018-11-05 22:26:47 UTC  

in an attempt to draw a conclusion of liberation would include the female sex equally entering the public industry

2018-11-05 22:26:55 UTC  

and hes trying to claim some kind of contradiction

2018-11-05 22:27:07 UTC  

between the relative comparison of the hegelian master-slave dialectic

2018-11-05 22:27:14 UTC  

and actual social relations of production wherein class spawns from

2018-11-05 22:27:35 UTC  

Wow, I love how you have to do so much gymnastics to cover for a direct quote

2018-11-05 22:27:42 UTC  

Must be tough

2018-11-05 22:27:54 UTC  

if you call context gymnastics

2018-11-05 22:27:56 UTC  

you dont know how to read

2018-11-05 22:28:12 UTC  

Yes, context makes the statement read different.

2018-11-05 22:28:14 UTC  

Yeah the idea he means they're the *literal* bourgeoisie is so stupid you must be purposefully doing it to have some weird take on "cultural Marxism" or something to that effect

2018-11-05 22:28:51 UTC  

_"and that in itself gives him a position of supremacy"_

2018-11-05 22:28:55 UTC  

iS THAT LITERAL?

2018-11-05 22:29:10 UTC  

Literally read what I said

2018-11-05 22:29:11 UTC  

I'm guessing this is the "Origins of the Family, Private Property and the State"

2018-11-05 22:29:15 UTC  

Yeah

2018-11-05 22:29:27 UTC  

How do we know what is literal?

2018-11-05 22:30:03 UTC  

Oh yeah men do have supremacy over women

2018-11-05 22:30:14 UTC  

That's doesn't make every husband the bourgeoisie

2018-11-05 22:30:16 UTC  

So, that is literal, but the next sentence isn't?

2018-11-05 22:30:20 UTC  

Wow

2018-11-05 22:30:32 UTC  

Because he literally says in a couple sentences later that the point of the comparison is that the liberation of the proletariat would inversely.mean in comparison the female sex introduced to public industry

2018-11-05 22:30:40 UTC  

He makes a comparison, are you really that dense not to notice?

2018-11-05 22:30:48 UTC  

Context or no, it's clearly a comparison

2018-11-05 22:31:04 UTC  

It's showing how it is also a class dynamic in some sense

2018-11-05 22:31:07 UTC  

Is saying men have supremacy also a comparison?

2018-11-05 22:31:15 UTC  

Maybe, that is a metaphor as well

2018-11-05 22:31:28 UTC  

Are you more concerned with winning an argument than learning?