Message from @[ϟϟ-Ostf] Kurt Daluegette

Discord ID: 474139702975266816


2018-08-01 08:51:53 UTC  

Obviously not totally, but God isn't a vague concept. The point of Christianity is to know God.

2018-08-01 08:51:53 UTC  

But even close to the knowledge needed to define him? No.

2018-08-01 08:52:59 UTC  

You're acting like God is a vague concept, incomprehensible to humans, which is antithetical to the point of Christianity (ie the Incarnation).

2018-08-01 08:53:07 UTC  

The main issue i have with catholics is their egotistical behavior and the whole Marry issue

2018-08-01 08:53:43 UTC  

God is so absolute we cannot understand him, he is infinitely incomprehensible.

2018-08-01 08:53:54 UTC  

Jesus was a way for us to try to grapple with this issue [a secondary thing, the primary is obv to save]

2018-08-01 08:54:43 UTC  

Veneration of Mary is intrinsic to historic Christianity, so that should not be an issue. And the behavior of individual Catholics shouldn't interfere with how you view the actual beliefs.

2018-08-01 08:55:33 UTC  

God is incomprehensible in many ways and absolute. But you have to be careful not to reduce the personal nature of God just to emphasize other aspects of God.

2018-08-01 08:56:27 UTC  

Believe it or not traditional protestant churches exist, i go to one.

2018-08-01 08:56:46 UTC  

Literally all of the Church Fathers (who were directly taught by the apostles and their succesors) wrote about the values/virtues of Mary. And some of the Prot "Reformers" held very "Catholic" views of Mary.

2018-08-01 08:57:39 UTC  

Protestantism is antithetical to Tradition though. The moment a significant portion disagrees with an element of a tradition, they will just start their own church.

2018-08-01 08:58:50 UTC  

Praying to marry is something i'd strongly opposed to, i view it as a sin.

2018-08-01 08:59:35 UTC  

Protestantism was originally about pointing out the flaws in the catholic church, but they refused to fix them, and many faults still exist in the Catholic Church.

2018-08-01 09:00:02 UTC  

"Praying to Mary" is literally just asking Mary to pray for you though. That shouldn't be a problem, unless you view asking other Christians to pray for you as sinful.

2018-08-01 09:00:37 UTC  

The Bible teaches that we pray to God alone. In the primitive church never were prayers directed to Mary, or to dead saints. This practice began in the Roman Church.

(Matthew 11:28; Luke 1:46; Acts 10:25-26; 14:14-18)

2018-08-01 09:01:07 UTC  

There's also kissing of the popes feet

2018-08-01 09:01:12 UTC  

Which the bible forbids

2018-08-01 09:01:21 UTC  

It started as a pagan custom

2018-08-01 09:01:43 UTC  

The Temporal power of the Popes is also sinful

2018-08-01 09:01:50 UTC  

Jesus expressly forbade such a thing, and He himself refused worldly kingship. (Read Matthew 4:8-9; 20:25-26; John 18:38).

2018-08-01 09:01:54 UTC  

wth

2018-08-01 09:02:47 UTC  

There's also the canonization of saints @ccalvaru

2018-08-01 09:02:57 UTC  

Which is utter nonsense

2018-08-01 09:03:06 UTC  

Since the bible teaches ALL believes are saints

2018-08-01 09:03:22 UTC  

(Read Romans 1:7; 1st Colossians 1:2)

2018-08-01 09:03:59 UTC  

There are many instances of people bowing/kneeling before people in the Bible - that act is not worship. And the kissing of feet is a sign of respect, not pagan worship.

2018-08-01 09:04:50 UTC  

What do you define as primitive Church? The apostolic and early Church fathers wrote of asking saints/angels to pray for them as early as 80 AD.

2018-08-01 09:05:12 UTC  

Theres also the celibacy of priests

2018-08-01 09:05:20 UTC  

The celibacy of the priesthood was decreed by Pope Hildebrand, Boniface VII, not by God.

2018-08-01 09:05:32 UTC  

Jesus imposed no such rule, nor did any of the apostles. On the contrary, St. Peter was a married man, and St. Paul says that bishops were to have wife and children.

2018-08-01 09:05:55 UTC  

The temporal power of Popes cannot be sinful either, unless you view the temporal power of kings as sinful, which the Bible advocates.

2018-08-01 09:06:20 UTC  

St. Paul advocates celibacy, and Christ Himself was celibate, so it obviously has virtue.

2018-08-01 09:06:36 UTC  

The sale of Indulgences, commonly regarded as a purchase of forgiveness and a permit to indulge in sin.

Christianity, as taught in the Bible, condemns such a traffic and it was the protest against this traffic that brought on the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century.

2018-08-01 09:06:55 UTC  

St. Peter isn't declaring that bishops must be married either, just that they cannot be divorced/remarried.

2018-08-01 09:07:25 UTC  

The church enforces celibacy though to become a priest

2018-08-01 09:07:31 UTC  

Also, the Pope *is* a king.

2018-08-01 09:07:53 UTC  

So yes

2018-08-01 09:07:59 UTC  

Actually not true, many Eastern rite priests are married. It's just a discipline, not a dogma.

2018-08-01 09:08:23 UTC  

Confession of sin to the priest at least once a year was instituted by Pope Innocent III., in the Lateran Council. The Bible commands us to confess our sins direct to God. (Read Psalm 51:1-10; Luke 7:48; 15:21; 1st John 1:8-9).

2018-08-01 09:08:36 UTC  

Selling of indulgences were historically distorted and overemphasized.

2018-08-01 09:08:45 UTC  

It still happen