also, i haven't read whatever you're referring to by Marx but he had no way of having the necessary perspective on it to be at all useful

he didn't live in an age where the technoindustrial system had true hegemony over every aspect of a persons life

hey guys, I'd like to revert to the times of 70%+ infant mortality rates, average lifespans of 30 and constant worry of starvation.

long lifespan = good life :)

starvation = good life

You know it wouldn't be such a bad thing if all the red liberals disappeared mysteriously

it's incredibly easy to make a communist joke right now but i'm above that

because i actually want to talk about this without you making assumptions about something you evidently know little about

karl marx saw the rise of the industrial revolution and the beginning of factory labor, his philosophy is specifically in opposition to this concept.

i'll read this right now - can you direct me to where it's said?

he specifically says the proletariat is a slave to the machine

i'll tell you if it's at all relevant

so, that's it? he makes a vague comment about being enslaved to a machine?

alright

got me there

I only had shown a single DIRECT reference to machinery.

im not sure what you expected that to prove

"can you direct me to where its said"
as in, can you tell me what text/page so i can read around it lol

well, that's this alienation stuff, the machine becomes a tool of workers' oppression even though it's not supposed to be

therefore Marx's Manifesto is in no way a criticism of modern industrial labor.

"can you let me know what text Marx talks about this in"
"sure heres a sentence where Marx mentions a machine"

epic

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch01.htm

chapter 1

but you could just read it

since the manifesto is a direct critique of factory labor

so it's literally the entire fucking thing.

then you misunderstand what is meant by the technoindustrial system

I would argue it is only a more advanced version of this basic factory system. but for sake of understanding each other how do you perceive it?

it's the underlying force which dictates daily life in the modern world: you can't get to work without a car or some other public transport - when you do, you work for some billion-dollar corporation which has achieved this by networking by means of the system itself. when you're hungry - you go to the store and buy what has been put there by the system; there's definitely a crossover of Marx talking about labour, but that doesn't capture the sheer scope of the entire techonidustrial system.

anyone who lives within the system is entirely dependent on it for their sustinance, livlihood, social groups etc - they are completely deprived of any sense of autonomy

you lack freedom

simbly a cog in the machine coerced into cooperation by being able to buy shiny things or by whatever illusion of freedom is given

"rights" n all that

Alright lads, now that I have my PC back,

I can type a lot faster.

Fucking happy as hell, like.

Marx talks a lot about that cog concept specifically. But you are right, some of it Marx didn't see at his time. The industrial system that oppressess the worker has gotten far worse since the late 1800s.

We rely on an oppressive system for all of our needs.

I don't usually bring up comedians as political sources, but this one is too good to call just a comedian. George Carlin would frequently talk about the "freedom" one has in our industrial nation, specifically the freedom to choose between important things.