Message from @UOC
Discord ID: 316325232917086226
If "freedom" has any purpose, removing the achievability of the purpose makes freedom meaningless.
purpose itself is the metaphysical enemy of freedom
Imagine a God having a "purpose"
It would completely obliterade his sense of unconditionality
It is more freeing to people to take choice away from them - bad choices, useless choices, choices they don't want.
Which is the basis for freedom
It is the highest achievement to realize the futility of choices
Think how people of all craft in the end limit their choices
I do. We're agreeing. I'm just making the policy argument because I don't trust people to come to the realization on their own
The Meaning of Freedom is heavely conflated, we have freedom in the sense that you talk about it namely spiritual freedom in other words being more free from ones animalic nature/subconscious or having acquired the skill to realise and eleminate ones biases from ones thinking and thereby achieving a "higher" sense of consciousness.
The danger is in people's realizations being founded on fleeting sensations
Which is always the truth the less there exists some sort of metaphysical order
@MK realization of ones spiritual unconditionality is the only meaningful freedom
put squarely, one can for example become unconditional by fully embracing the possibility of cessation of his physical existence at will
Then There is the sense of political freedom, having certain rights in other words the souvereign promises to restrict his own behaviour in some sense, for example free speech the state promises not to stop you from speaking your mind within common spaces
but again, refusing to ascribe to it the "ultimate meaning"
you can parse the word freedom however you want. I'm only talking about it in the colloquial sense of choices available to an individual
The leftist use freedom in the sense of being free from obligations/dutys while still getting the benefits
Yeah
i . e. Freedom from Duty
and that's what I'm objecting to
One must not under any circumstance give choices any inherent value
I've agreed with you this entire time @The Enlightened Shepherd
Other than allowing choices where choice fulfills a desired function
For example, pattern of making bad choices when given option, can be used to realize that an individual is a danger to himself and therefore to he group
Every higher power wants to limit the choices of it's subordinates, this is the basic law
The higher the power, the more choices and the greater the need for a "purpose" which will serve as a guiding light
Since multiplicity of choices always brings existential crisis of a sort
It's usually in peoples own interest. i limit my own choices because I am unhappy if I face endless meaningless choices
Same here
Freedom has naturally certain restrictions namely the physical ones obviously, but also other human beings have a natural genetically imprinted sense of justice, they realise when costs are externalized on them and will try to retaliate against you so those are natural limits to your behaviour too
I deleted some dozen plugins because I could spend days trying to figure out which instrument to use when making music
Limiting your options is a powerful strategy in modern times
"but also other human beings have a natural genetically imprinted sense of justice" most peoples sense of justice is their greater capability to abstractly conceive things, which results in them using themselves as a reference
these are the sort of people with whom you can have "good things"
Absolutely. Some clinical research also supports the notion that limited choices and limited resources also result in greater creativity and problem solving ability.
This does not apply to most
Presentation of choice and presentation of information is a major issue in policy discussions too.
Behind every choice in modern public dealings, lies some sort of tyrany
The Good effect of limited choices can really be seen within art, if you restrict the tools and the styles that one can use one has it offers a kind of tool to compare and assess artpieces based on the characters one has defined within such a framework