Message from UOC in Realism #general

2017-05-22 20:42:35 UTC  

I guess I would be useful doing other things.

2017-05-22 21:12:43 UTC  

"the freedom we get isn't really the freedom we want" the freedom itself is an entirely spiritual, inner condition

2017-05-22 21:13:18 UTC  

if one tries to become free through some kind of external machinations, he reaches insurmountable barriers

2017-05-22 21:15:13 UTC  

Sure. I would agree with your statement. But there is also, for example, the "school choice" illusion. If you are given the choice to send your children to any of 10 shitty schools, what kind of freedom is that? Is it more "free" than having only one, good school to send your children to?

2017-05-22 21:16:04 UTC  

If "freedom" has any purpose, removing the achievability of the purpose makes freedom meaningless.

2017-05-22 21:17:19 UTC  

purpose itself is the metaphysical enemy of freedom

2017-05-22 21:17:37 UTC  

Imagine a God having a "purpose"

2017-05-22 21:17:52 UTC  

It would completely obliterade his sense of unconditionality

2017-05-22 21:17:58 UTC  

It is more freeing to people to take choice away from them - bad choices, useless choices, choices they don't want.

2017-05-22 21:17:59 UTC  

Which is the basis for freedom

2017-05-22 21:18:32 UTC  

It is the highest achievement to realize the futility of choices

2017-05-22 21:18:56 UTC  

Think how people of all craft in the end limit their choices

2017-05-22 21:19:27 UTC  

I do. We're agreeing. I'm just making the policy argument because I don't trust people to come to the realization on their own

2017-05-22 21:19:37 UTC  

The Meaning of Freedom is heavely conflated, we have freedom in the sense that you talk about it namely spiritual freedom in other words being more free from ones animalic nature/subconscious or having acquired the skill to realise and eleminate ones biases from ones thinking and thereby achieving a "higher" sense of consciousness.

2017-05-22 21:19:59 UTC  

The danger is in people's realizations being founded on fleeting sensations

2017-05-22 21:20:19 UTC  

Which is always the truth the less there exists some sort of metaphysical order

2017-05-22 21:20:49 UTC  

@MK realization of ones spiritual unconditionality is the only meaningful freedom

2017-05-22 21:21:18 UTC  

put squarely, one can for example become unconditional by fully embracing the possibility of cessation of his physical existence at will

2017-05-22 21:21:24 UTC  

Then There is the sense of political freedom, having certain rights in other words the souvereign promises to restrict his own behaviour in some sense, for example free speech the state promises not to stop you from speaking your mind within common spaces

2017-05-22 21:21:34 UTC  

but again, refusing to ascribe to it the "ultimate meaning"

2017-05-22 21:21:55 UTC  

you can parse the word freedom however you want. I'm only talking about it in the colloquial sense of choices available to an individual

2017-05-22 21:22:53 UTC  

The leftist use freedom in the sense of being free from obligations/dutys while still getting the benefits

2017-05-22 21:23:07 UTC  


2017-05-22 21:23:11 UTC  

i . e. Freedom from Duty

2017-05-22 21:23:32 UTC  

but the rightists will argue that More Choices = More Freedom

2017-05-22 21:23:47 UTC  

and that's what I'm objecting to

2017-05-22 21:24:03 UTC  

One must not under any circumstance give choices any inherent value

2017-05-22 21:24:25 UTC  

I've agreed with you this entire time @The Enlightened Shepherd

2017-05-22 21:24:51 UTC  

Other than allowing choices where choice fulfills a desired function

2017-05-22 21:25:23 UTC  

For example, pattern of making bad choices when given option, can be used to realize that an individual is a danger to himself and therefore to he group

2017-05-22 21:26:12 UTC  

Every higher power wants to limit the choices of it's subordinates, this is the basic law

2017-05-22 21:26:48 UTC  

The higher the power, the more choices and the greater the need for a "purpose" which will serve as a guiding light

2017-05-22 21:27:04 UTC  

Since multiplicity of choices always brings existential crisis of a sort

2017-05-22 21:27:08 UTC  

It's usually in peoples own interest. i limit my own choices because I am unhappy if I face endless meaningless choices

2017-05-22 21:27:46 UTC  

Same here

2017-05-22 21:27:48 UTC  

Freedom has naturally certain restrictions namely the physical ones obviously, but also other human beings have a natural genetically imprinted sense of justice, they realise when costs are externalized on them and will try to retaliate against you so those are natural limits to your behaviour too

2017-05-22 21:28:10 UTC  

I deleted some dozen plugins because I could spend days trying to figure out which instrument to use when making music

2017-05-22 21:28:25 UTC  

Limiting your options is a powerful strategy in modern times

2017-05-22 21:30:19 UTC  

"but also other human beings have a natural genetically imprinted sense of justice" most peoples sense of justice is their greater capability to abstractly conceive things, which results in them using themselves as a reference

2017-05-22 21:30:30 UTC  

these are the sort of people with whom you can have "good things"

2017-05-22 21:30:41 UTC  

Absolutely. Some clinical research also supports the notion that limited choices and limited resources also result in greater creativity and problem solving ability.