Message from @The_Don_73

Discord ID: 501628824686034955


2018-10-15 04:56:42 UTC  

What

2018-10-15 04:58:27 UTC  

“The mood was also influenced by the deportaion of Jews, Gypsies and Krimchacks from the Crimea during the period under report. The unfounded fear that the Germans would exterminate the entire population had subsided entirely a few weeks after the occupation of the Crimea. “

2018-10-15 04:58:33 UTC  

in other words, "we thought we got all of them, but we really didn't"

2018-10-15 04:58:40 UTC  

So where they deporting them or killing them?

2018-10-15 04:59:12 UTC  

“Surpass considerably”

2018-10-15 04:59:35 UTC  

Pretty shitty executioners

2018-10-15 05:01:09 UTC  

The Einsatzgruppen themselves were death squads, but that doesn't mean that there weren't also deportations from the east. It doesn't say that it was the Einsatzgruppe conducting those deportations.

2018-10-15 05:04:23 UTC  

So they were deporting then just to kill them

2018-10-15 05:05:06 UTC  

the report doesn't specify where they were deported so I can't answer that

2018-10-15 05:07:26 UTC  

On that note I need to really sleep

2018-10-15 05:07:33 UTC  

We’ll continue this tomorrow

2018-10-15 05:07:49 UTC  

good night

2018-10-15 19:07:10 UTC  

can we expect leaks soon?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/486385308951379968/501471113444982804/afraid.png

2018-10-16 05:18:01 UTC  

@The_Don_73 If you read the Irving v Lipstadt trial decision, it says that the defendants case was that "approximately one million Jews were murdered by the use of gas at [Auschwitz.]" And when read in context Lipstadt is talking about the Soviet's statements regarding what was happening in Auschwitz. I've never read the full book and google books preview doesn't give access to the full book, so I can't say whether or not she provides an alternative number elsewhere. But certainly by at least 2000 when the case was decided she had changed her views, if she had originally believed the death toll to be four million. It's very possible she made a mistake.
Also, in *Denying the Holocaust,* she calls Raul Hilberg the "premier historian in this field." Hilberg provides a death toll of 1.1 million for Auschwitz, agreeing with Höss's death toll provided in 1946, as well as Reitlinger. Western historical consensus has been this number for a very long time. Historians who cite a different number fall outside of this consensus.

Gilbert is mostly known for his official biography of Churchill. I've never read any of his work on the Holocaust and I don't think he's considered to be a prominent Holocaust scholar. Again, like Lipstadt, he's talking about the Soviet's initial discovery of the camps. Looking at the pages provided by Google Book's preview, Gilbert cites Hilberg as a person he was grateful for in his acknowledgments, and also cites *The Destruction of the European Jews* in the main text.

Either way, neither of these two examples discredit the general claim that western historians have rejected the 4 million number. Exceptions do not disprove the rule.

2018-10-16 05:29:20 UTC  

"I commanded Auschwitz until 1 December 1943, and estimate that at least 2,500,000 victims were executed and exterminated there by gassing and burning, and at least another half million succumbed to starvation and disease, making a total dead of about 3,000,000." Affidavit signed by Commandant Rudolf Hoess, May 14, 1946, i can give the original affidavit if you want.

2018-10-16 05:29:24 UTC  
2018-10-16 05:29:50 UTC  

he revised that number because he considered it too high

2018-10-16 05:29:53 UTC  

revised it to 1.1 million

2018-10-16 05:31:08 UTC  

During his trial, Höss changed the figure in his confession to a total of 1,130,000 Jews that were gassed but declared "During my tenure at Auschwitz, millions of people died, whose exact number I cannot determine."

2018-10-16 05:31:44 UTC  

Eichmann told Hoess that 2.5 million Jews had been murdered at Auschwitz Birkenau.

2018-10-16 05:33:51 UTC  

So it kind of a shit show of who to believe. The first figure was 3 million then he was off by almost half, but then adds he doesnt really know that Eichmann knew. He says that 2.5 million jews were killed, so presumably several hundred thousand non jews were killed as well.

2018-10-16 05:44:42 UTC  
2018-10-16 05:48:10 UTC  

I'll respond a bit later I'm doing something else right now

2018-10-16 05:48:21 UTC  

also yes several hundred thousand non-jews died at auschwitz as well

2018-10-16 05:49:37 UTC  

I'll probably respond tomorrow

2018-10-16 06:44:09 UTC  

Amazing how historians claim 6 gorillion died but then change it to 4 million and later to 1 million

You know, trivial mistake of several million people

2018-10-16 06:44:21 UTC  

Either you know how many died or you are pulling numbers out of your ass

2018-10-16 06:56:19 UTC  

Even though the British used the 4 million figure when prosecution the companies that produced the gas

2018-10-16 06:58:02 UTC  

HOW DARE YOU111!!!1!111111!1 MY GRANDPA WENT THROUGH THE MASTUBATON MACHINES AND THE HOLOCAUSTER 6000000 MILLION GORILLIAN TIMES @Noxar

2018-10-16 07:04:06 UTC  

@The_Don_73 I've been personally gassed 6 gorillion times

2018-10-16 07:04:13 UTC  

Horrible shoah, horrible

2018-10-16 07:04:38 UTC  

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/486385308951379968/501651668081836035/f427ede53dea90ad60c5187f68672810.png

2018-10-16 07:04:41 UTC  

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/486385308951379968/501651681168064513/2a182ec9919b6ca3fb16d35a790bc3f3.png

2018-10-16 07:05:03 UTC  

this is the relevant section from Höss's memoir

2018-10-16 07:05:50 UTC  

Höss says Eichmann gave the larger number to him, but also the figures used to calculate the 1.13 million

2018-10-16 07:06:05 UTC  

later historians have done estimates and found the revised number to be the correct one

2018-10-16 07:07:49 UTC  

it's not really a "shit show of who to believe" because Höss's revision is corroborated by later estimates

2018-10-16 07:08:09 UTC  

@Noxar congrats on demonstrating that you know absolutely nothing about the Holocaust

2018-10-16 07:08:48 UTC  

revising the Auschwitz plaque to the number that was already long-standing consensus in the West is not a problem for the 5-6 million number

2018-10-16 07:09:06 UTC  

that number can be calculated from population estimates before and after the war

2018-10-16 07:09:42 UTC  

Population "estimates" - what's 1948 almanach anyway