Message from @The_Don_73
Discord ID: 501628291434676235
????
What
“The mood was also influenced by the deportaion of Jews, Gypsies and Krimchacks from the Crimea during the period under report. The unfounded fear that the Germans would exterminate the entire population had subsided entirely a few weeks after the occupation of the Crimea. “
in other words, "we thought we got all of them, but we really didn't"
So where they deporting them or killing them?
“Surpass considerably”
Pretty shitty executioners
The Einsatzgruppen themselves were death squads, but that doesn't mean that there weren't also deportations from the east. It doesn't say that it was the Einsatzgruppe conducting those deportations.
So they were deporting then just to kill them
the report doesn't specify where they were deported so I can't answer that
On that note I need to really sleep
We’ll continue this tomorrow
good night
can we expect leaks soon?
@The_Don_73 If you read the Irving v Lipstadt trial decision, it says that the defendants case was that "approximately one million Jews were murdered by the use of gas at [Auschwitz.]" And when read in context Lipstadt is talking about the Soviet's statements regarding what was happening in Auschwitz. I've never read the full book and google books preview doesn't give access to the full book, so I can't say whether or not she provides an alternative number elsewhere. But certainly by at least 2000 when the case was decided she had changed her views, if she had originally believed the death toll to be four million. It's very possible she made a mistake.
Also, in *Denying the Holocaust,* she calls Raul Hilberg the "premier historian in this field." Hilberg provides a death toll of 1.1 million for Auschwitz, agreeing with Höss's death toll provided in 1946, as well as Reitlinger. Western historical consensus has been this number for a very long time. Historians who cite a different number fall outside of this consensus.
Gilbert is mostly known for his official biography of Churchill. I've never read any of his work on the Holocaust and I don't think he's considered to be a prominent Holocaust scholar. Again, like Lipstadt, he's talking about the Soviet's initial discovery of the camps. Looking at the pages provided by Google Book's preview, Gilbert cites Hilberg as a person he was grateful for in his acknowledgments, and also cites *The Destruction of the European Jews* in the main text.
Either way, neither of these two examples discredit the general claim that western historians have rejected the 4 million number. Exceptions do not disprove the rule.
"I commanded Auschwitz until 1 December 1943, and estimate that at least 2,500,000 victims were executed and exterminated there by gassing and burning, and at least another half million succumbed to starvation and disease, making a total dead of about 3,000,000." Affidavit signed by Commandant Rudolf Hoess, May 14, 1946, i can give the original affidavit if you want.
he revised that number because he considered it too high
revised it to 1.1 million
During his trial, Höss changed the figure in his confession to a total of 1,130,000 Jews that were gassed but declared "During my tenure at Auschwitz, millions of people died, whose exact number I cannot determine."
So it kind of a shit show of who to believe. The first figure was 3 million then he was off by almost half, but then adds he doesnt really know that Eichmann knew. He says that 2.5 million jews were killed, so presumably several hundred thousand non jews were killed as well.
I'll respond a bit later I'm doing something else right now
also yes several hundred thousand non-jews died at auschwitz as well
I'll probably respond tomorrow
Amazing how historians claim 6 gorillion died but then change it to 4 million and later to 1 million
You know, trivial mistake of several million people
Either you know how many died or you are pulling numbers out of your ass
Even though the British used the 4 million figure when prosecution the companies that produced the gas
HOW DARE YOU111!!!1!111111!1 MY GRANDPA WENT THROUGH THE MASTUBATON MACHINES AND THE HOLOCAUSTER 6000000 MILLION GORILLIAN TIMES @Noxar
@The_Don_73 I've been personally gassed 6 gorillion times
Horrible shoah, horrible
this is the relevant section from Höss's memoir
Höss says Eichmann gave the larger number to him, but also the figures used to calculate the 1.13 million
later historians have done estimates and found the revised number to be the correct one
it's not really a "shit show of who to believe" because Höss's revision is corroborated by later estimates
@Noxar congrats on demonstrating that you know absolutely nothing about the Holocaust
revising the Auschwitz plaque to the number that was already long-standing consensus in the West is not a problem for the 5-6 million number
that number can be calculated from population estimates before and after the war