The slave class

You mean the prisoners

Not a class, like it's some caste

Yeah, why not?

If it's for ideas it is

@WizardLizardInABlizzard while that was the theory and logic behind stalinist policies of forced collectivisation, that is what would happen if socialism didn't transition from capitalism and from a agrarian society.

They can do good deeds because of their bad deeds

Because that is stagnation in the economy

Slavery is not economically sound

We don't have to do it if it's not pragmatic

@WizardLizardInABlizzard the stagnating economy only worsened under khrusvhevs policies

but they can be useful in some way

Community service

Whatever, really

Because when Russia opened up to world economy gulags already did their damage

@Quasi government appointed life is communism

No, that's totalitarianism

you NPC

@WizardLizardInABlizzard under the guise of opening it up, the military-industrial complex fell under the hands of oligarchs

most final stage communist ideologies wouldn't have government

yes

it's a stateless, classless and moneyless society

well, there's some nuance

but that's the basic gist

under true communism there would be no government

it was still socialism

with dictatorship of the proletariat

Fine, totalitarianism prevents natural development in all aspects; tech, culture, economy, everything

@WizardLizardInABlizzard while the Soviet Union was yes, totalitarian, in a socialist system innovation would skyrocket and develop better.

>real communism never existed
*I wonder fucking why*

@WizardLizardInABlizzard because they transitioned from agrarian economies and not capitalist economies

socialism always fails when there's no industry to build it upon

literally every example of a socialist revolution happens in the third world and not industralized nations

Capitalism and free market is the best fertilizer for innovation

@WizardLizardInABlizzard but you're only arguing about the pragmatic effects of punishing dissent *in one way*, not justifying free speech.
`Fine, totalitarianism prevents natural development in all aspects; tech, culture, economy, everything`
Not necessarily, although *corporatism* does sacrifice efficiency for stability which is great.
`>real communism never existed
I wonder fucking why`
It did, although rather pathetically most of the time

Also probably the main reason we're not all killing each other

@WizardLizardInABlizzard innovation under a capitalist system is only driven for more profit, while under socialism is different

`Capitalism and free market is the best fertilizer for innovation`
No, it's the best encouragement for appealing to base desires

And what drives profit?

Greed

No, demand