like, you clearly havent read any serious amount of market socialism

Oh i have, actually arguing about it right now, cockshott and such

yea? ive read more than 10 books on this

and im telling you

*youre wrong*

so i dont give a shit if youre having an argument with someone on it

its uninformed

I wasn't really making a wrong or right statement there, i was more giving my opinion about the 'red line' between one or the other

and its an incorrect redline

ill prove it

suppose there exists 20 different "regions" in a country

it's pretty good. if the means of production(capital) aren't nationalized and if individuals can buy and sell shares in companies, etc, it's not reallya socialist country

and each region has a socially owned bank

there are at least 20 socially owned banks

socially owned can be in a gazillion forms, is a joint stock company considered 'socially owned'?

or a credit union

now in this system, you can have a stock market for the trade of securities between socially owned banks

if individuals can have property rights in stock, i think thats' the dividing line

socially owned as in, the people of that region have equal, or near equal, levels of shares in it

and they cannot sell the shares

it's not a technical argument, it's arbitrary but i think it represents a big difference since having property rights in stock versus not being able to have them is a big deal

but this is literally a socialist system which has a stock market

so....

youre wrong

that's not really a stock market

that's a socialist govenrment pretending to have a stock market

how the fuck isnt a market of securities being openly traded by all banks not a "market of stocks"

its not a socialist govt

holy shit

these banks arent owned by the government

you said "they cannot sell the shares"

yes?

that's a big deal

it is

and its not govt owned shares

the banks arent government owned

theyre socially owned

whatever the arrangement is, if they can sell and 'dump it' they aren't really participating in a stock market

if they cant

and i said the people cant sell the shares they have of THEIR BANK

the shares of the stocks CAN BE SOLD