why EU, of all things? And why would they be unavailable for the public?

"Military and police ammunition shall not be made available to civilians." principle. Introduce a new shotgun for police and EU security services, but make it illegal to sell the ammo and firearms to all not police or military agencies.

that seems really counterproductive, especially for a shotgun shell. Sure you could argue it makes sense to restrict warheads if you make e.g. HEAT or gas cannister warheads for military use, but not really anything beyond that

a shotgun is hard to conceal, doesn't penetrate body armor, can't carry a ton of ammunition...

basically if you allow your population to own any weapon at all, a shotgun is probably the safest you could let them own. And since most EU countries already allow semi-automatic pistols and the like, no sense in restricting a semi-auto shotgun

That is why .308 Winchester is not avalible to the public in Germany, it can be chambered in 7.62NATO firearms and vice-verse. Because of this HK makes a none .308 Winchester versions for sale on the comerical market in Germany

that's Germany local laws, not EU laws

Those laws are not exclusive to Germany.

Some countries ban 9x19 because it is a military caliber, France is one of them or was... they recently changed the laws.

and what, police ammunition is 9x19mm, you can't own a regular ass pistol in Germany?

you sure as hell can in Finland, a friend of mine has a Saiga-12, semi-auto 12g shotgun as well

That would be a reason for the new shotguns and ammo being exclusive and thus they can exclude commercial sales.

yeah but why would they?

This is all hypothdical anyways. There needs to be some major push for developing new shotgun and ammo.

There isn't right now Crow, there is more than enough rimmed shells and most shotguns are made with tube magazines so the rim is not a major concern.

no I'm asking why they would restrict it and not allow it on the commercial market

how does that decision make sense?

the other option is belt feed. rim doesn't matter so much then

allowing it to civilians cuts cost, which is very important for what's a very niche product (not like every police officer is going to carry around a shotgun, it'll be one per every three vehicles or something like that depending on funding), and if you're already allowing civilians to own pistols and rifles and the like, allowing them to own a shotgun isn't a security risk. It's arguably safer to have a thousand pistols and a thousand shotguns out "in the wild" than to have two thousand pistols and no shotguns

Crow, the reason is elites wanting toys for themselves but not for the peasants. Think of it this way, when was the last major improvement on shotguns introduced? And I mean major improvement? the 1920's? In order to justify making a brand new shotgun shell and new shotguns at this point they would need to come up with something spectacular. The EU leadership would be willing to put that improvement in the hands of security but not the presents.

that makes no sense

What does an 8mm Lebel do better than a .270 Winchester round? Nothing. But since the end of WW2 French firearms collecters could have Lebels and Berthies, but couldn't shoot them since they were banned from having military caliber ammo.

Same went for 7.5 French Service.

It isn't about logic, it is about control.

>the reason is elites wanting toys for themselves but not for the peasants.
The elites wouldn't be using this. A few police grunts and very specific military units (e.g. MPs) would use it in limited numbers, as a rifle is vastly superior in all other scenarios
>when was the last major improvement on shotguns introduced?
Late 1880's, rifled slug
But when was the last major improvement in rifles or pistols? Blowback operated was late 1800's for pistols/SMGs, gas operated rifles in early 1900's, nothing since.
>they would need to come up with something spectacular.
And rimless isn't it.
>The EU leadership would be willing to put that improvement in the hands of security but not the presents.
Why?

MP as in Military Police, not Member of Parliament

US Army so yeah MPs.

Rimless would just be one measure to ensure it isn't used by someone who already has firearms and wants to try and simply rechamber. Rechambering from Rimmed to Rimless rounds it a hell of a lot harder.

WHY WOULD THEY EVER CONSIDER SUCH A MEASURE

it makes no fucking sense to do so

look

here's how it works:

Frankly this is all still a mute point since I can't see any "Magic" upgrade that would justify it.

in EU, there's one directive everyone has to follow, it prohibits missiles and launchers, automatic firearms, disguised firearms, ammunition with penetrating or explosive warheads, and expanding projectiles for pistols (except for hunting and targeting pistols)

then specific countries can add stricter directives if they want to

if Germany has retarded gun-laws on par with the US, that's on Germany

I could even see a historic justification for it, for example there could be a lot of older pre-legislation armor-penetrating ammo in military calibers floating around (or ammo that's "disappeared" after the Berlin wall fell, for example), e.g. there could be mountains of AP ammo for the 7.62x39mm East German AKs floating around in Germany, which means it makes (a bit of) sense to restrict weapons loading that specific ammunition

Well I still don't see this being a real word talk for the forseeable future. As I said, I can't foresee any major changes to push rimless shells.

yeah we can easily ignore that bit of the discussion, and focus on the notion that EU would arbitrarily restrict them to military and police

I think a major advancement in shotgun technology that would justify making new shells and making them rimless would be used by elites at the EU and EU member governments as further justification for limiting the ability of the people to have firearms like they always do. How many times do we hear politicians call for restricting firearms after any sort of notable action with firearms?

basically never, as it's almost all done on a national level