(yes, a real question asked to my friend at a helpdesk)

@Beemann Christians gave you modern science and are generally very good at it. That's because science as we have it is inherently friendly to the classical Christian worldview.

@Ghostler Still more strawmen and ridiculous claims about something you haven't even read.

pretty sure there was more than just Christians that contributed to science.

pretty sure we got some pretty good asians who don't believe that help greatly

You are looking pretty typical of the Ideological Atheist set: you claim to stand for science evidence reason and rationality, then you refuse to look at anything that seriously challenges your current beliefs--and pretend your beliefs aren't beliefs.

But smart people in the past believed it so it must be true

What are you, Sam Harris? LOL

We need a strawman emoji. But yeah; I'll grab them.

"If smart people believe something, it is OK for me to declare their belief dumb even though I haven't even bothered asking them how they came to their conclusions or what evidence finally convinced them." I talk regularly with ex-Atheists, including many scientists. Want to talk to some?

I'm agnostic and I came from a good home with strong family ties. I used to be atheist but that was just to pointlessly rebel.

"You haven't "really" researched anything"- stranger on the internet

DAT hubris

You'd get a much better discussion with atheists if you got off your high horse and explained your case rather than telling people to read a book. We can link books that are with us too. It wouldn't prove us right

Honestly all I can do is just be what I would consider a good person.

agnostic can be atheist or not

Jeebus would be proud

I mean, that's where this really started: Atheists aren't disliked because they refuse to believe in Magic Sky Fairy Spaghetti Monster. They're disliked, politically and otherwise, because they obnoxiously declare everyone who won't be atheist with them to be stupid or brainwashed, and, furthermore, they refuse to examine or talk about any evidence that goes against their conclusions. IT's really sad.

it answers a different question. Although i guess you could be "true" agnostic

Smart people also used to believe the Earth was flat.

Max, That's what makes them funny too. I have some FSM stickers and a morale patch.

People much smarter than me

@Schedrevka I get along just fine, dude. My Red Pill Religion project has helped eat the Atheist Hivemind on YouTube alive. IT's been fun. 😉

Smart people didn't understand bacteria

ATHEIST INCELS UNITE

"because they obnoxiously declare everyone who won't be atheist with them to be stupid or brainwashed, and, furthermore, they refuse to examine or talk about any evidence that goes against their conclusions. IT's really sad."

i know plenty of theists this could apply too. Dogma is a bitch but has not loyalty to any belief.

That description sounds familiar

call it hate speech, call it blasphemy, its the same bullshit.

And I have helped TONS of people finally get over the brainwashing and figure out that "oh yes, there is rational reason for religious people to believe what they do, maybe I should look into it." Some wind up concluding the same thing I did --that the evidence overwhelmingly points to there being a God--and some are just Not Jackholes and say "I still find that evidence unconvincing but I can see why others would find it convincing." That sort of atheist no one has a problem with. It's these horrible jerks who run around ly ing about science and history and being nasty to people that give atheists such a low reputation.

@Grenade123 Agreed.

It's pretty clear that all this will boil down to is interpretation based on current facts and evidence. Current being the key word.

The guy is 100% philosophy. He might offer some interesting arguments but I can't apply it because it's not based in fact.

"The guy is 100% philosophy. He might offer some interesting arguments but I can't apply it because it's not based in fact." -- what idiot told you Philosophy isn't based on facts? It's based on little BUT fact.

Usually our discussions here are very civil between atheists and theists.

I don't think there's a rational argument for religion, but I don't care if you want to take it on faith

Read the first line.

Or rather

@Schedrevka by most comparisons, this is still pretty civil all things considered.

lol. Anyways I'm more interested in ethics and morality when it comes to these folks, not defining my sky king. My sky king does barrel rolls.

For a higher power. There are rational arguments for *being* religious, divorced from the metaphysical

Indeed, you 0outright lied about Ed Feser, who provides plenty of facts. There is really no reason to trake you seriously anymore. Have a good convo guys. Anyone who wants to actually learn something is welcome to come talk about this stuff on our server, where Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Christians of various types, New Agers, Deists, and atheists who actually want to get along with religious people all hang out.

https://discord.gg/b8RSv8