Message from @Bookworm
Discord ID: 536400826709704715
In many circumstances, financial transactions themselves should be forced in my opinion. It really depends on the reason the seller wants to not engage in a simple financial transaction.
Custom services no, but in many situations financial transactions yes.
If you want to deny someone a financial transaction, it would need to be something to do with their actions
Okay, but you haven't claimed to be a libertarian, so it's still possible that your positions are internally consistent.
Like not wearing a clothes in public and wanting to buy shit at a Walmart.
Yeah I'm not an ancap. I think states are useful for some things
Conflating libertarians with ancaps is disingenuous.
No, when you provide a service you must provide it farily and to all
If the request breaks the law then the vendor/creator should not do it
But in this case it would make sense that the service to provide custom to order cakes would fall under the same limitations
Why must I provide a service to everyone when I provide a service to anyone?
Depends on the service. Restaurants shouldn't be able to refuse to give someone pasta unless they violate some kind of rule. But custom services that express a message should be able to be rejected if the message that is being asked that the servicer expresses is something they don't want to do.
Provide it to those whom you are able to so long as you have no resource limitations or time restrictions
If the bakery bakes people blue cakes on demand, they shouldn't be able to refuse, but if the bakery bakes people custom cakes, then they should be able to reject
Because otherwise people would be able to deny service based on arbitrary measures such as political orientation
Didnt vote democrat? no twitter account for you
So, then, I can refuse to sell someone a burger if I argue that my actions during that exchange constitute artistic expression?
No. There is no overt message in a burger.
The margins for "expressive services" should be very narrow
Ah, but there is a message in my actions during the process of selling a burger.
in business all transactions carry some sort of message
Some expressions should be protected, but others should be policed.
There is no message in selling a burger that is unique. Any message that is being seen in selling a burger is the same as any other sale in the vacuum of ignoring who is buying.
Ah, so only unique messages are protected?
A unique expression inherent in the sale of a custom service.
Repeatable or generic artistic expression can be forced to be provided.
Generally ill draw the line at luxury goods
If you can't see any difference in the product from person to person then it is not expressing anything distinct
And yet porn is still protected under free speech laws.
There is no justice.
The seller of a burger has already agreed to "express" their sale of a burger. A custom cake baker did not consent to the expression of nazi propaganda if someone asks for that kind of cake.
Actually nix that luxury goods line
The issue is that the seller is has not previously consented to express all messages that may come from a custom cake request, but a seller of a burger has consented to the singular expression of the sale of a burger.
The main issue with protecting artistic expression is that the lines are far too gray with it
So, what if someone only agrees to sell to the people they feel like?
Would that not be an acceptable contract?
Then were back at denying requests based on political alignment
No, cause the delineation of why they are selling to some people has to be based on the product itself
It's not about the expression being artistic in nature. It's about the established rules for what a seller has consented to sell. A black artist could be selling paintings of his dog and shouldn't be able to refuse selling to anyone. He has consented to the sale of paintings of his dog. If that same black artist says they will sell paintings of customers dogs, and a customer sends a picture of a dog with "I HATE NIGGERS" shaved into his back, he can refuse that service because he did not consent to painting that previously.
So it has nothing to do with agreement.