Message from @Komrade Kam

Discord ID: 573333186868936706


2019-05-02 02:17:28 UTC  

Individual ownership over the means of production has thus been a natural process

2019-05-02 02:18:43 UTC  

If we consider the first civilization: Sumeria

2019-05-02 02:19:02 UTC  

If individual ownership over the means of production did not exist, then why would Sumeria have laws on protecting property and taxation over merchants?

2019-05-02 02:19:17 UTC  

Prior to the current individual means of production there was feudalism in which a royal family or royal administration ran the means of production

2019-05-02 02:19:30 UTC  

```
feudalism in which a royal family or royal administration ran the means of production
```

2019-05-02 02:19:31 UTC  

wat

2019-05-02 02:19:49 UTC  

How did you think the Magna Carta even started

2019-05-02 02:19:59 UTC  

And that document showed you that nobles were more in power

2019-05-02 02:20:01 UTC  

than the "royal family"

2019-05-02 02:20:15 UTC  

The nobles were essentially the big-boss managers of "modern capitalism" today

2019-05-02 02:20:23 UTC  

Wdym dude, that would then be royal administration which I said

2019-05-02 02:20:30 UTC  

There was no free-market

2019-05-02 02:20:35 UTC  

no free market?

2019-05-02 02:20:37 UTC  

what r u on about

2019-05-02 02:20:45 UTC  

anyone coudl trade freely whatever they want

2019-05-02 02:20:54 UTC  

That's how Venice even made their $$$

2019-05-02 02:21:05 UTC  

Traded with the Middle East for Silk Road products and exported it to Europe

2019-05-02 02:21:17 UTC  

And this was far earlier than the medieval ages

2019-05-02 02:21:23 UTC  

You'd have to first give x amount of all products produced to the crown and they could at anytime seize your means

2019-05-02 02:21:44 UTC  

Venice made their money because they traded via the crowns

2019-05-02 02:21:48 UTC  

except the government can still seize your means

2019-05-02 02:21:51 UTC  

in today's eras

2019-05-02 02:21:56 UTC  

does capitalism not exist then?

2019-05-02 02:22:24 UTC  

The U.S. Government literally has eminent domain for this reason.

2019-05-02 02:22:30 UTC  

They'll seize your assets and underpay you

2019-05-02 02:22:44 UTC  

You have to give x amount of products (in form of taxed currency) to the government

2019-05-02 02:23:12 UTC  

But, here's the difference, as I said is that now we have a modernized Capitalism and prior to then began market feudalism. Now we currently have that. Prior we had crown held a majority of the economic power

2019-05-02 02:23:22 UTC  

Now the individual holds most economic power

2019-05-02 02:23:26 UTC  

Crowns did not hold majority of the economic power

2019-05-02 02:23:34 UTC  

why do you think the royalty family sponsored merchants

2019-05-02 02:24:02 UTC  

So they did sponsor merchants??

2019-05-02 02:24:13 UTC  

???

2019-05-02 02:24:18 UTC  

Also here are my five sources

2019-05-02 02:24:56 UTC  

Like Hobbes would reference in his *Leviathan*, the King does not get rich if he does not make his kingdom rich.

2019-05-02 02:25:13 UTC  

The crown doesn't control all the economic power, he doesn't dictate trading policy

2019-05-02 02:25:23 UTC  

He just says "here's some money, now go get me some good shit on the way home"

2019-05-02 02:25:31 UTC  

Even nobles did this