Claims about the motivation for the attack as suspect, claims about the migrant's backgrounds are suspect, claims about the size, political bent, organization, goals, etc, of the protest are suspect.

And trying to film some places, they were shouted away

Some say the attack happened because people involved were drunk, others say it happened because there was an attempted rape. Who you believe is completely dependent on your political biases.

Some say the migrants were criminals, others say they were there legally. Again, you just have to believe whatever you choose.

What I heard was that they only Harassed Women and the germans came to help the Women.

Some say the protest was nazis, others say it was just regular citizens. Some say it was 4000 people, others say it was 10000+. Some say it was peaceful, others say it was violent. Some say it was organic, others say it was orchestrated.

and then they got stabbed

Atkins, yes, who you believe is down to you but if you're going to play the numbers what would you put your money on.

We cannot trust the media when they have obvious political biases and agendas of their own, let alone German media which have legal restrictions which may literally prevent them from legally telling the truth even if they intend to.

@Atkins
With Nazis its the same as in the US. There are a couple but the Protest happened almost immideately and they got at least hundreds, if not thousands of people. That's just too much for Nazis. Though there might be some Racist and Pro 3rd Reich People there but they are a minority. Like 5% at most.

^^^

BUT: What happened after the Initial demonstration might have caused a dramatic influx in Far Right Activists as "normal people" got insulted and trampled on. If the führthest Right are the ones that actually listen to the People, that is what they will turn to.

It's also incredibly easy to manipulate such things. If you're a lefty journalist who wants to paint the crowd as nazis to serve your agenda, you can just get one of your buddies to run in front of a wide angle shot and throw a hitler salute.

But yes, there are also definitely German citizens who have neo-nazi beliefs.

The People in the East of Germany know that.

You just have to decide what you want to believe.

They lived under *COMMUNIST REGIMES*.

The "Riots" are happening in the ex- Communist parts of Germany!

Thing is that people in the West are afraid to stand up with their eastern brothers

Well, it seems likely to me that the people of West Germany probably are having at least as hard a time understanding the situation as we are. They have much more draconian information control to try to pierce. But beyond that they have the demoralization effect preventing any action from forming.

If you can't be certain what are the actual facts of the situation and you are hesitant about being manipulated, you will be paralyzed by inaction.

For example, if you consider it possible that the protest was actually mostly nazis and you don't want to have anything to do with nazis, then even if you don't *know* it was nazis you will hesitate to support it.

Better to stay silent than risk accidentally supporting nazis.

No, there are many people who could guess the situation because the same shit is happening in their region every day.

And its the same People doing it there as well, at the other end of Germany

Its only far leftys that strongly believe in the Ideology of Diversity that protest the protesters. "Normies" that live in areas full with migrants have a pretty good grasp of the situation

east and west germany are still very different in culture and exposure to foreigners

but the buzzfeed article tim posted is... just... wow...

I wish Tim would use archives.

"there is no point in having fact-checkers in regular media because people don't believe them"

maybe the fact that there apparently ARE NO fact checkers in regular media might be the reason WHY no one believes them...

I agree. I think if even Buzzfeed or others actually started doing good work they would quickly build up a better reputation.

You know what would be wild? If media cut out the middle-man of fact-checkers, and just included links to original source documents, audio, and video.

stop the churnalisim.

If they're claiming X said Y, then just link to a clip of them saying that.

This is shit that kids learn in high school for fuck's sake. Reference the original source material whenever possible.

And the whole fucking point of hyperlinks was to do just this.

That's why hypertext was invented. To link pages together to make it easy to jump around multiple documents and have sources and context available at a click.

We're going backwards though. All this web 2.0 shit made pages pretty with stylish typesetting and complex newspaper-ish layouts, but the content turned to garbage.

Have you ever looked at the info on a Adin Palidin video? It's beautiful.

Oh yeah she's really good when it comes to citing things. She's almost unique in that regard.