Wait, there's actually people who still pray to the Jew v2?

I'm cool with living beside Christians as much as the next guy, hell, Martin Luther was kind of a boss... but why would you still actually, you know, believe in that stuff?

Agnostic

Oh, I am an Atheist as well, just narrowing it down 😉

Like I said, got nothing against Christians

Just curious

So you value faith over empiricism?

Fair enough. I am honestly curious.

Values do matter very much to me.

I've attended many, I used to be a Christian when I was young myself. I was curious why individuals here would still believe in it.

And I read the bible already

So you converted because you found it to be too much emotionally?

So why did you convert?

Pascal's Wager has been debunked

Gwyn, you are aware that Pascal's Wager has been debunked, correct?

Doctor Anon - Which creation story are you talking about?

It's simple rationality. You would have to apply it to all faiths, not just one. So there is the Pascal's Wager of Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, Islam, Taoism, etc... Each one, by not believing in them, you are taking a risk. Pascal's Wager only applies to believing in some sort of afterlife-reward versus not, but the problem arises when you take into account that there are thousands of different possible ones to believe in, and most are quite exclusionary for receiving the ultimate prize.

This is without taking into account the fact that if one lives their life according to a religious code that prevents them from fully experiencing their short time on earth and they are wrong, then they have squandered precious years of a finite existence.

Therefore, Pascal's Wager, even from a superficial analysis, is quite flawed.

I was using it in the manner of 'demonstrate the hollowness of', which is correct.

But it is an irrational subjective opinion upon which to build your faith.

I just told you, it applies to all faiths, but yes, even I suppose to a lack thereof, but therein lies the issue, if you can apply Pascal's Wager to all beliefs regarding the afterlife, its usefulness becomes moot.

Then why did she give it as a reason?

I quite literally asked why those who believed did... and that was her answer... so now you're calling her a... liar?

Zexy, I'm not sure why you're so hostile.

Gwyn, so what is your basis?

Namecalling is silly.

He's calling me a pseudo intellectual because he disagrees with me and finds it easier to accuse me of overintellecualizing in a false manner than to actually engage with the argument.

Zexy, I used Pascal's Wager, because Gwyn brought it up.

I was talking to her specifically when deconstructing it.

because she used it.

So no

It was quite relevant.

See, again, the hostility

Rather than engage in a productive conversation (and admit you made a mistake) you'd rather bluster.

Oh, you are mistaken, I was amused, not insulted 😉

Will do, Gris.

It's not his fault, having your core beliefs questioned is uncomfortable.

He'll get used to it with more time on the internet.

I'm suspecting so. Nothing wrong with that. He has the advantage of more time.

Yeah, trust me. When I was a young Christian, I would practically burst into flames at the first prod at my faith. When I first became an Atheist, I was probably worse.

But yeah, anyways

As long as one's set of beliefs doesn't lead to... you know, blowing yourself up in a crowded place or taking a joyride with a rented van... (There's a reason I said I'm quite content to live around Christians)

Well, that's just it... I must say that I also have more respect for the man who lives according to the letter of his belief system, than the moderate apologist.

But... Suppose one's core text told one to? And suppose one had a very good reason to believe in it?

Sorry, could you clarify the second sentence? I think I'm reading it wrong.

Oh, well in either case innocents are being hurt, yes?

Well to me, either would be evil. But suppose someone had a very good reason to believe in a faith that told them to do both?

Example that applies to neither New Testament Christians nor Atheists-

Jews believe that their God has ordained in the past that it is good and right to genocide entire peoples.

A true go-getter.

Yes, it would be to a Christian like yourself.

The horrifying thing is, there are many ideologies.. popular ideologies that don't see the world through that lens.

I never said that

and don't intend to imply it

I said ideology for a reason

Not at all. It doesn't make them wrong at all. That an ideology tells someone to do things that are repugnant to you or I has nothing to do with whether they're right or not.

Nor is there anything stopping a man from doing the same.

Communism, Islam, Judaism, National Socialism... Ultimately, there's little we can say as to whether they are 'right' or 'wrong'. We just know that they demand morally repugnant action (to myself, at least).

That is the one comforting thing about belief in an objective morality, though. At least the Christian can say "They are wrong because God said so."

An atheist who is true to him or herself has to admit that all they have ultimately is their own subjective preferences/values.

Well, my bootycall just arrived, so I gotta run. Was nice meeting y'all. Take care!

Separate church and state. Kill off the state.

Can you please not give me reasons to vote 'Hitler Youth'? I mean, what do you expect is going to happen if you compare them to a subhuman red?

Well, he lied about his background to gain entrance to the USA.

I disagree with extradition, but it's quite in line with American border policies.

If it's private it should have full freedom of association and speech, monopoly or not.

If you live in a location in which individual(s) you disagree with on a fundamental level own 80% of the land, I recommend you move.

I don't think any property should be in the hands of the state.

If you don't like your neighborhood, find a different one.

Why not?

Refusing to give someone access to your platform is not infringing on first amendment rights.

@Deleted User

Auction off? I don't support the state auctioning off property. Not sure where you got that idea.

Why would you want the state to auction off property?

I suddenly have a hankering for some Cafe Gratitude.