the adoption and foster care situation doesn't exactly treat kids right all the time

entrusting your kid to a messed up system is a HUGE decision, and if some people don't want to, you shouldn't be able to force them to

even if that life starts in a potentially abusive situatiion

so the needs of a 2 week old > the needs of a fully formed human in your minds?

so you don't think abortion is right even in cases of rape??

ok that baby could represent the outcome of a situation

the mother might not be able to look at that baby without recalling her lowest low

it's not right to look at a baby and think about that

what if you don't have a relative like that

or what if you don't want to entrust something as big as a baby to someone else

like how do we measure when/if something is alive?

imo, if you're a living being, then you're conscious

"The very beginnings of our higher brain structures only start to appear between weeks 12 and 16. Crucially, the co-ordinated brain activity required for consciousness does not occur until 24-25 weeks of pregnancy. We cannot say when consciousness first emerges, but it cannot rationally be called before the end of the second trimester at 24 weeks of pregnancy."

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/the-moment-a-baby-s-brain-starts-to-function-and-other-scientific-answers-on-abortion-1.3506968

if you're a living being, then yeah you're conscious

damn it i really didnt think this thru did i

well scientifically, being alive requires 7 characteristics

ability to reproduce

what

what

istg i was told you need 7

why am i so dumb today

fuck

if you have been conscious in the past, and have the ability to be conscious once again, then you are alive

lol

i cant articulate myself properly today so yeah

ok NEXT POINT FOR YOU TO BEAT ME AT

you can't get rid of abortion

you can only get rid of safe methods of it

yeah

if you outlaw abortion, that may stop some people, but it wont get rid of abortion

yeah, but some people would rather go to jail than be forced to have a baby in their stomachs for 9 months and eventuallly give birth

like at that time

yeah

that doesn't change anything

abortion existed before it was legal

abusive situations

our brains both shut down today pls excuse us

what if the mother was in an abusive relationship and got pregnant

she wouldn't want the child to suffer severe damage from her getting beat up

she can't take care of it properly

she can't take care of herself

yeah i agree on that

exactly

yeah the police system is also quite messed up

physical in this scenario

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system

unless she scratched him and there's his dna on her there's no proof he inflicted those wounds

and what she said

so in that case, what do you think would be the right thing to do

as in

keep the baby, adoption, abort

so you think a father has the same say as the mother has on whether she should keep the baby?

do you think thats right?

guess what that is: he's FORCING HER to KEEP the baby. that's no different from what would happen if abortion was outlawed.

well i mean it is different in terms of safety

but like

do you really think an abuser would want to raise a child

and if he wants to, would he be right for the kid

but if it's outlawed, then you're still *forcing* the mom to give her child to a messed up system

i have a question

do you think a (non-abusive) father has the same say over a child as the mother does

so the 9 months that a mother has to carry that child for mean nothing?

oh yeah and: a fetus shouldn't be held to a higher value than a pregnant woman because it can't sustain itself out of the mother's womb

yeah

i mean it's obviously not ideal; all couples should talk about whether they want a baby before having sex, but (imo) it is ultimately the mother's choice

it definitely means less than 9 months, not to mention giving birth

wait sorry gtg

hi

im back

so should we just pick up right where we left off

huh

where did rolyan go

@Deleted User wya

idk where that goes

but yeah

i still havent done the math hmw oops

do i have to

oh no i have dictation tmr

ffs

no u

u did ur hmw

prob not

oops

we committed oopsies

mhm

@Deleted User is online where is (s)he

trans??

wha

oh yeah

how many genders

3 max imo

yeah

lmao

but sex and gender are two diff things aren't they

there are only 2 sexes

hi sprite peach

oof