I would love to know what indexical elements Ratel is using to justify his knowledge about what the Ancient Hebrew loose meanings are of slavery

hey CS Go Time

Cheers guys - chat soon

yeah man SA is going down a long deep rabbit hole

I dont think civil war - but i do think very oppressed

I still think we have some freedoms but they are being eroded steadily into the eather

At the moment I still have the freedom to own a house a car a business etc but these freedoms are not going to last in future SA

yeah - and that is just a small glimpse of what future SA is going to look like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cwKlna3nKc

Lol - now you are just trolling

You do know all this crap you spewing is debunked long time ago - you guys really need to start finding new arguments

No i use my own head - unlike you who uses a book written by sheep herders

lol

Listen - its night night time enjoy your prayers and bed bed time chat soon

@Bantukaner I don't know
I mean the ussr persecuted a ton of religious people
then you have the capitalist nations
which constantly encourage materialism and consumerism
bringing no value to life
and putting the individual above all
instead of the collective
whereas religion value the collective and strive to better society
whereas atheism only cares for the individual and merely seeks to improve the individual and not those around it
it transforms the human body into a cog in a machine with no value
so atheists get the bullet
nuff said

lets break that down

Stalin did not persecute Religious people because of atheism - Atheism is a non belief in a Diety - to believe Stalin killed people because of atheism is like believing that he killed people because he did not believe in the Easter bunny

Materialism and Consumerism well I dont know about you having nice things in life adds value to life and the value of life is life itself

Which religious society would strive for better - would you like to go live in Iraq or any of the Theocracies any where in the world..

And have you ever wondered why many pols have shown most housed criminals are Religious

So in other words Atheist dont have to worry about Christian bullets .. We just have to wait for them to give themselves the Electric Chair

As for you fears of Capitalism - Ask yourself then why you so worried about EWC - the right to own property makes up a huge part of Capitalism

Becuase hey Property is just ground and things we own right???

At least with Atheism we have the common sense not to include people as property as it is immoral.. But your Bible written by men inspired by God says its Permissible to own people as property.. Your Bible and your God is Immoral ..... Nuff Said

@Bantukaner As opposed to God who thinks Slavery is still Moral

@Bantukaner I would like for you to name the verse where God Says " You shall not own people as property " Just one verse would be good ty.. Oh and dont lie for Jesus about the type of Slavery - I cannot beat my maid / laborer and not suffer any punishment so long as he or she does not die.. Come now . stop being so dishonest. And with regards to morals god does not only condone it he even tells you who you can enslave and he provides you with a loophole on how to enslave a person for eternity by driving an awl through the ear of the slave. Your problem is you know your God is immoral and that current day society is by far more moral than your God who has become irrelevant in a modern world.

Im still waiting for that verse

@Bantukaner nice red herring Bantukaner my statement still stands and I can promise you modern Day society is by far more moral than just 50 years ago let alone 100 years or even 1000 years

So far you have just presented Condoning slavery - how dumb can you get

In fact it even goes on to support victimhood

Obey you masters even the cruel ones - that sounds pretty immoral to me

Supporting Victimhood

Slave obey your masters even the Cruel ones -- If its just a laborer as you say then i would tell the maid or Laborer to leave the cruel master

but I can understand why you dont get it because you need a book to tell you what is moral

yes and so far we doing much much better than your book

Why you complaining - Your bible says it is okay to rape children - God says to kill all the men and and woman except for the woman who have not known a man - what do you think that is for

it is terrible that you need an atheist to quote your bible to you

Oh so God can give devine commands about not harming children but he himself cannot follow his own rules - Did you happen to forget about noahs flood

So what you just said is god is fallable

lol

dumb ass

You want the verse - just read deuteronomy which is full of horrible commandments

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again."
Exodus 21: 7-8

And when she had presented him the meat, he took hold of her, and said: Come lie with me, my sister. She answered him: Do not so, my brother, do not force me: for no such thing must be done in Israel. Do not thou this folly. [II Kings 13:8-12] But he would not hearken to her prayers, but being stronger overpowered her and lay with her. [II Kings 13:14]

Wow you really like to hide behind oh - thats old testiment and new testiment - Find any verse in the New testiment where God Says DO NOT OWN PEOPLE AS SLAVES - I Even challenge to find a statement from Jesus where he says he came to change the law

Your very first verse just proved my point no previous law has been changed

so stop hiding behind OT and NT

Nonsense - he says the LAW and he does not mention the ten commandments - there are 614 laws which will include your ten commandments

lol

Bantu - you killing yourself here buddy - you actually go and quote what I actually said was true and then you think you doing yourself any good. Law commandments LAW GOD God god we still talking the same things

you just doing mental Gymnastics

like most christians do when they cannot explain why God is so immoral

Nope - Im using your very own words against you

You seem rather concerned about gays - Very moral of you

lol

I got you by the balls and im just turning the screws

thats all

lol

perhaps you should go read peter 3 15

but listen I will say you are very entertaining though

wow - was it a win lose kinda debate or was it a battle of ideas. And in the arena of Ideas - Arguments stand and fall on their own merit and so far you have not presented a single thing that refutes me

Almost every verse you quoted says exactly what I said it would .. In fact it would seem I read the bible more than you do . As for "Your" God he certainly aint real and I am not an Atheist because of the evil shit in the bIble - I am an Atheist because you guys are yet to present evidence for your God

Ever heard of the Superiority of Secular Morality... Mr.P

Nobody can ever disprove a negative - It is as stupid as saying disprove the tooth fairy and because you cannot disprove the tooth fairy therefore I believe in the tooth fairy. The Tooth Fairy is a Negative Claim and the Claiment has to prove it before you believe it - see how it works

just replace tooth fairy with your God

Mr.P look it up

Give me a good reason why I should bow to your wims Mr.P last I checked I dont owe you anything

Mr.P the best way to educate yourself is to enlighten yourself - Just trying to get you to read something that is not just your bible

Mr.P well you seemed rather un impressed when I said you could look it up .

I couldnt care what amazing philosophers say as they do not present proof but rather arguments

Wow did you just try to present an argument for God and disguise it as proof

lol

How about this Go read from the great legendery Daniel Dennit Philospher he argues against your god - therefore I am right = Right?? hence Arguments are not proof

Or how about Bertrent Russel or Kai Nielson or William L Rowe - they all argue against god - so we must be right now that Athiest are correct ... Wrong .. none of them present Evidence .. So lets rather tackle why YOU Believe in God and lets see if that stands the test of scrutiny

Philosphers from as long as there has been philosophers have argued for a great many things - Non of which is Evidence for anything - EG Some argue for Solipsism some against non of them prove either way

So lets rather talk about your belief and why you believe it

LOL - You cannot be serious... Shall I break that down for you.. What you just said is you dont like the way the world looks therefore God is Real... What amazes me is that you think the one leads to the other some how.. okay but lets tackle your position.... You wonder why we hate religion . well how about you trying to convert everyone to you specific "brand" of religion and if they dont they automatic must be low lifes.. Even though you know nothing about me. Which brings me to the next point Religion Devides and does not unite. as you make abundantly clear in your statement. Religion also get you believing in things without good reason for believing in it.. Just to name a few of the problems let alone you vote in accordance to that religion you follow and expect me to follow your Ideals created by sheep herders. Perhaps your views on consumerism is based on the circles you move in and not what the vast majority of people adhere to. Perhaps its time for you to change up the people you hang around. So you say that people lost faith AFTER WW2 hence by your standard you should be asking how did the people Before WW1 and 2 who were Faithfull got into WW1 and WW2 if faith prevents immoral behaviour.. I dont know about you but WW1 and WW2 both were pretty fucked up in my mind and Since by your std that After world War 2 people lost Faith - then I must Commend them because we still have not seen WW3 yet so we doing pretty well ty.

As for fags and trannies - please explain to me what exactly is inherintly immoral about either of these people short of quoting your bible. Its only religions who are concerned about what people do in their private bedrooms. Atheism is not based on anything other than 1 single view . That being No evidence has been presented for God therefore we do not believe in it until such situation changes. That is it. So if you want to change Atheists minds perhaps you should start coming up with better ways than just saying " I dont like the world , therefore GOD "

@Bantukaner - and before you missunderstand me let me also add the following .. I dont know you from a bar of soap therefore I do not hate you nor do I love you .. I have no idea about you and thats it.. What I do think about you is that your std for evidence is very low . " No that does not mean you stupid " it just means you dont have Good Reasons for your belief. And Hopefully you see that and find better reasons to believe

7DK - did it ever occur to you that you already poisoning the well by saying the following " WHO and Created " what makes you think it is a who and not a what? Then what makes you think it was Created ?

7DK the only logical conclusion (and honest one) that can be said about the formation of this universe is science is working on this problem and they still do not have an answer. There is an entire field of science working on this and they still just have ideas. I can talk about what I think about the formation of the universe but what I think and what I believe is two different statements.

7DK science may answer this question about the origin of the universe in my lifetime and they may not . I am happy in the knowledge that both of these situations may prove to be true.. But I am not willing to be intellectually dishonest and say well because Science does not know yet, therefore this Religion thing must be right..

@Bantukaner - thanks for the long read - I love spending my spare time reading... Hehe.. okay.. lets tackle your statements.. 1...Firstly you need to show me first that I need to be saved and in order to do that you still have to prove your Gods Existance.. It like saying hey I want to provide you a parachute even though you cannot show me that the plane is crashing.... 2... Uniting under religion - any dumb ass can tell you that If God existed and was able to Think logicaly then he would easily see that the outcome he desires and what is actually happening is two very different things.. Why doesnt god just Come out from hiding and say hey All you human dummies this is how it is and here I am forget all the books and this is me presenting myself to you. 3...Forced Rejection of belief .. Correlation does not equal causation.. There is no evidence to show that Stalin Murdered because of Religious Beliefs.. His motives , very little is known about his motives , what is known is he was extremely paranoid and was delusional about his countrymen.. Just because the people who died under stalin were christians does not mean it was because they were christians..

4... Consumerism and Materialism .. Since the dawn of mankind progress has always led to infighting and copying of innovation .. EG early humans invented the club and early humans quickly realized there was advantages to having a club over an enemy who did not have a club. which meant More Early humans wanted clubs so more were made.. This is just Human Nature at work .. Survival of the fittest so to speak.. If you have a nice car and it affords you a special standing within social ciicles that benifits you more than me then it would be natural for a person to want a better car

and so on and so forth

You are trying to change Human Nature

As for the Homosexuals and Trans people.. I really would like to see your sources .. and their credibility

because I dont know about you but there is a lot of dads out there who molest their children whilst still being straight .. and this has been ongoing since again ( the dawn of man)

There is a lot of mother out there who molest their boys whilst still being hetro

These people are the fringe Groups and have been around since the dawn of man

I dont see any evidence that it is mainly homosexuals and trans that do these things . and the ones who do commit these kind of crimes are also just the fringes of their community

Which brings us to Your sources stating that the Majority of sexual deviance is commited by Trans and Homosexuals (especially because they are trans and homosexuals)

All of which --- non of these statements gets me to GOD IS REAL

@Bantukaner - Circular argument My religion tells me to save you thefore I must save you.. Atheist: why do you believe your religion - Christian because I dont like the world ..Atheist: Why do I need saving ? Because my Relgion.. Come on man surely you can see this problem???? Atheist: How do you know he came out of hiding? because my bible says he did.. Atheist : why do you believe your bible Christian : because i dont like the world

and did you just quote a Christian website to support your Stalin theory - lol

I also never said anything about Homosexuality being Genetic.. so Im not sure your point there..

You are still to provide why Homosexuality is immoral

Yet homosexuality can be found in all forms of nature

Yes we are

the Science does not support your theory that we are not animals