!agree

There's a difference between encouraging motherhood and promoting a narrative that motherhood is the only value a woman has.

It seems to me, many people who encourage motherhood are accused of 'devaluing' a woman to that being their only value, which makes people encouraging it villainized.

I think a woman can pursue interests in addition to childrearing; however, if a woman chooses to be a mother she should make that a priority. How making that a priority 'looks' for each family unit may be different.

For instance, motherhood at infancy compared to when children are 15, is vastly different.

The roles are different, the functions of the parent for both father and mother aredifferent.

@devpav I think it also depends, there are some women I would not want to be a mother. I think they're trash people, and building a framework that this is what they should aspire to is a mistake. Granted, taking these people out of the equation - I would think most women would see motherhood as a higher calling.

@ThreeOfOne Most women I know want to be mothers, they want to adopt, or work in fields with 'motherhood' roles. I think many have been told that embracing femininity and traditional roles is 'oppressive'. I still stand by that there are women I wouldn't want near children, women can pursue other things, but if they choose to be a mom that should be a priority - even beyond adolescence.

@Montgomereeeee That's not true LOL. My nephew loves dinosaurs, and he wanted to go to the zoo to see one. I had to explain they were extinct but we could see their bones. He was soooooo angry.

Trust me, he totally misses dinosaurs. He is also 5, so...

@ThreeOfOne Well, that's unfortunate. I think college tempts women with the promise of more resources, but it's hard work in or out of college. I have a college degree and I am very happy, but I just love learning.

@ThreeOfOne Exactly. You can't go in thinking college is some golden ticket. You still have to work hard. My grandfather would tell me 'hard work wins every day of the week' and he was onto something.

@mikeflarkin You are right, it is the result of an instant society. Instead of teaching endurance we teach replacement.

@ThreeOfOne I think that is partially true. My dating pool shrank where I had men straight up tell me that they were intimidated because they had jobs in manual labor and I had a degree? There's stigma either way. I think women expect... this is going to sound really mean, but they expect to have a pick of the litter with men, no matter what. Perhaps there is some evolutionary truth to this, but overall women end up overly picky? I knew a woman in college who broke up with a guy who 'wore shirts she didn't like'. Not offensive shirts, just t-shirts instead of whatever. Nuts, right?

@ThreeOfOne I know a lot of very stupid people who have degrees, so perhaps there's some truth to that too.

I think it is natural for women who have fathers, brothers, sons, etc... would want to make sure that their men remain strong. I have two sons, I want them to grow up knowing their value.

I think it's interesting. When we have 'only spaces' are we supporting 'tribalism'? I think what bothers me more is the hypocrisy that some groups want 'only spaces' but not for others to have 'only spaces'.

@ThreeOfOne That is an unpopular opinion, about understanding each other - but it is so true. I manage a group of all men, and I cannot understand their interactions at all. I am baffled.

@Vannevariable That's what we're discussing. Why that might be.

I think it has to do with those women advocating for their fathers, brothers, sons, etc.

I think everyone is capable of knowing the pangs of loneliness. I might argue a woman's drive to be social is because they hate loneliness so much.

I don't think that's true, Three. I think that women are encouraged to communicate and have aptitude for communication, therefore use it more in the development of friendships. But,it's not discounting men can be very lonely - and I don't think society overly cares if they are. Which is sad.

Are you lonely, @ThreeOfOne ?

I think it is difficult for many men to speak to things that make them appear vulnerable too. I have no qualms saying things like "I am lonely" whereas the men in my life I know would struggle to admit this.

Well @ThreeOfOne, luckily I think making friends and such is a skill people can learn. It's like any other muscle that's not used very often and takes exercise. The book that helped me is an older one that my grandfather gave me. "How to win friends and influence people".

@ThreeOfOne I think it's okay to give up for a time, but not forever. Sometimes we get beat down so hard for so long we need to just 'stop' and reassess. To give up for a short while and let things settle and then move forward. It doesn't offend me at all, but makes me hope you don't give up forever. No one should feel lonely forever.

Mac and cheese is gooooood.

I am making stuffed chicken breast and twice baked potatoes with a side salad. Yummmmm.