Hey guys what's up

Proud to be a patriot

Uh wow

@Blood how's that?

Corruption is not an inherent part of capitalism

@Blood yeah - because of government intervention and intrustion where they ought not be

And what I just said is apart of how socialism works. Centralized government

that controls everything

No, it's the opposite of that

Money doesn't mean nothing, it's distributed evenly by the government

In socialism

@Blood that doesn't make any sense. Socialism advocates for economic equality, that can only be achieved by means of redistrubtion of wealth - taking from the rich and giving to the poor

Socialism has never failed, it's worked as intended. It fails the people though

Yes it does, because the money has to come from somewhere, and you eventually run out of it

Yeah but there'e never been any sort of abundance of food in any socialist society

Young socialist, you've been kind of dodging my points here

I don't know, for almost every thing I mentioned you went onto something else

Look, private property has been the fundamental aspect of any society that's ever been economically and financially successful. Socialism does away with private property rights

Nobody keeps what they earn

Yeah, because that's socialism

@Blood yeah? Well they're doing it wrong. Under capitalism poverty has decreased itself gradually

@Autistic Dog *"thats funny because even under communism people were desperate for private property and earning money"*

that's because because communism is international socialism

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

To be clear, fascism is national socialism, where the people are bounded by nationality, as opposed to communism, where the people are instead united by enconomic class

...and not a whole lot of people actually know this. They think because Hitler invaded Russia they must be opposite ideologically but it was just the competition for power

@Fusion true, on both of those points

Yep

Socialism - any form - also necessiates totalitarianism, so that the individual exists as a means to the ends of the state, always in the name of the common good. Collectivism and big government is prioritized over individualism and limited government

It's what must be done in order for the government's centralized planning to be upheld. It's essential.

And some countries espouse socialsim but aren't willing to do what's necessary to enact it wholly.

So they're not really socialist

At least, the economy isn't

@// mainly state/government ownership of the means of production, centralized economic planning, and the redistribution of wealth by the state. And state-funded education, universal healthcare and/or welfare, guaranteed emplyoment, and since the state, by these means assumes ultimate responsibility for the well-being of the individual, every aspect of life is penetrated in order for it to happen that way. Since the state is providing you everything you need to live, the people are dependant upon the state for every aspect of their well being and this is all the leverage they need for total control over the people. This is where the totalitarian regime comes in. This is how nearly *every* socialist society has gone about.

Big government is always involved

The people or citizens never really own everything as a community. It's always, *always* been the state representatives. This is how it always turns out, it doesn't work for them any other way. Because I don't know how to run a fucking business - that's why private ownership of businesses are important

........I mean seriously, how the fuck does *a n y o n e* advocate for socialism when it's always turned out this way???

Exactly

It doesn't matter how you spin it

Democratic socialsim is still national socialsim and is thus fascism

But since so many people don't really know what the hell they're talking about they'd freak out if I said that

Because fascism has such an automatic negative association - as it should

And as should socislism

@Blood it is reality. Look at history. Don't repeat the same mistakes

This is why they've tried to place fascism upon the right of the political spectrum, and why they've tried to say that the Nazis weren't socialist, because if everyone knew the truth, nobody would want socialsim

sorry, guys, I'm just unloading in the chat here

It had capitalism in name only

@Blood The means of production was technically privately-owned, but this was only by a superficial level, as the state had every say in how it was run and bore the substantive powers of ownership regardless. This being the introduction of price and wage controls in 1936 as a response to the inflation caused by all the governemnt spending necessary for all its programs and subsidies. And *furthermore*, the government took outright control over what was produced, in what quantity, by what methods, and to whom it was distrubuted. This constitutes the de-facto socialization of the economic system. The government was still excersising the powers of ownership. And the alleged position of a private owner basically became that of a government pensioner.

@Blood it's what you call de-facto socialism

See, I just explained how the Nazis not being socialist because of 'state-run capitalism' is a myth because the government *still* fucking had control over everything

@Blood well, you didn't retort my explaination about Nazi Germany's de-facto socialism either 😉

Because you can't refute the truth

That doesn't make any sense

the other way around

You literally switched the definitions

Far-right is anarchy, that was the complete opposite of what Nazi Germany was

@Blood how does that 'un-checked' power affect you personally though?

How does it oppress you?

@Blood because it's crony-capitalism

I'm sorry, but coporations being greedy doesn't oppress anybody in any way. The point of a business is to *profit*

@Blood and it's the responsiblity of the government to *not accept* those bribes. That's why limited government is important

@Blood again, that's how government is a necessary evil. That's why it *must be limited*

*that is republicanism*

@Blood well the the government handles the perogatives that the constitution delegates to the government, so it's only the government's responsibility to protect the rights of coporations just as any citizen's rights are protected. It's not the government's job to regulate them

@Blood the government simply has no role in anything to which it's not afforded by the constitution. That's the way the government is structured.

Term limits must be enacted. Drain the fucking swamp

Again, the workers *never* own the means or production or the productive assests. It's never worked out this way, and it never can. Because the workers are not supposed to be the ones managing a business like that

@Extra Crispy exactly

Woah

Thanks @Extra Crispy for explaining all of this in more depth

This always comes down to the socialists seeing that the government is the better means or way for them to have thse goods distributed, and that's why it's always turned out that way

Because it's quite obvious that there's no guarantee the workers are going to be efficient, able and 'equal' in undertaking it.

To be clear, don't go on thinking that Marco Rubio is any sort of legitimate republican, because he is absolutely not

Not by Discord, that's for certain

'Liberal' as in leftist

@whytho it does now

The meaning of liberalism has been infiltrated and fucked

Since the 1930s

Leftists operated under the guise of 'liberalism' to make what they're doing seem appealing, when in reality it reflected the exact opposite of what liberty and liberalism means

So, of course liberalism isn't fucking leftism, but the meaning has changed, gradually since the 30s and especially since the 60s

Fascism is not right-wing

No characterstic of right-wing politics lines up with fascism

@Cords4me but fascists *are* national socialists

That's exactly what fascism is

Socialism opertating upon a national basis

@Human Supremacist no they're not

@Fusion true

Fascism and national socialism are literally the same thing

Fascism and communsim is the difference between national socialism and international socialism, as well as the people being united by nationality in fascism as opposed to being united by enconomic class in communism. Those are basically the *only* main differences

Otherwise communism and fascism are identical

@Human Supremacist no they weren't, the government still controlled everything

@Human Supremacist That's not very much an argument. I'm going to quote myself a little here, Nazi Germany represented a de-facto socialism, where the means of production was *technically* 'privately owned' but the state had every say in how it was run and bore the substantive powers of ownership regardless. This being the introduction of price and wage controls in 1936 as a response to the inflation caused by all the governemnt spending necessary for all its programs and subsidies. Furthermore, the government took outright control over what was produced, in what quantity, by what methods, and to whom it was distrubuted. This constitutes the de-facto socialization of the economic system. The government was still excersising the powers of ownership. And the alleged position of a private owner basically became that of a government pensioner.

That's not capitalism in any way. State capitalism and socialism is literally a difference without distinction

The notion that Nazi Germany wasn't socialist, and that they were, instead, somehow, right-wing, is an outright myth and one of the worst cases of flawed historical revisionism I've ever seen

@Human Supremacist Dude, fascism *IS* national socialism

I've already explained this

No, Italy was too

You're historically retarded

@The Chad Sonnenrad I'm 17

I'm not very new

@Human Supremacist you don't know I'm uneducated, that's quite frankly not for you to assume