True, true, but I think we can all agree that the current healthcare system is too capitalistic. People often die from curable diseases under it, simply because medical treatment is too expensive.

There is a balance to be struck, but we cannot leave the American healthcare system as profit-over-care as it is. That's what I believe.

I highly doubt that things could _ever_ go that far, even if Warren or Bernie wanted it to.

As for Warren's strategy, I admit that they're not all deus ex machina-style solutions to the world's problems - she's only human - but they're damn good, for the most part. Furthermore, her transparency about her plans for everything alone is a pretty good sign, if you ask me. Many candidates in both parties don't have anything anywhere near as specific on their platform; their plans are much more reminiscent of vague promises by comparison.

Warren may be a little overly optimistic here and there, but she is always willing and prepared to explain exactly how she intends to accomplish everything on her agenda.

That earns my respect, at the very least.

*Sigh* I'm a little too tired to respond to the claim made by Wizard, nor the base claim that Warren is a "commie." It feels a little pointless, and I've had a long day.

Nor will I engage the persistent and pathological obsession with viewing everyone with a (D) next to their name as Joseph Stalin's disciple.

Eh, I could believe that last one.

There is corruption in both parties, without a doubt. But the extremes to which people take that... I just can't, y'know?

I know, right? Everyone seems to think that the mindset of the average twitter troll or petulant child who is too young to vote anyway is the mindset of everyone on the left, and that is simply untrue.

*Sigh* I don't really care what 20% of professors in a certain specific field think; they don't speak for me.

And I don't care to dignify that statement about Warren with a response.

I don't think it is. You are making very grave assumptions about an entire political party, and to avoid vain arguments about the people's alignment let's assume roughly half of the United States

Or one third, accounting for independents.

Based on 20% of professors in one particular field. The evidence for which, I might add, I have yet to see and cannot evaluate.

I'm talking about both.

If I were to run for office tomorrow, I would still be - good point about the amount of individuals engaged in politics - the same person I am now.

The same is true of Republicans, you know.

Yes, of course it is. But more socialism than we have now =/= COMMUNIST RUSSIA, COMRADEZ

I am, too, but Warren is not of the corporate wing; she's far closer to the progressive wing.

The AOCs and the like who are fighting against things like money in politics.

Progressivism =/= DEATH TO THE CONSTITUTION. Stop strawmanning.

The cow farts were a goddamn joke.

You fecking sycophant.

That is absolutely untrue, unless you are referring to some bullshit cult that falsely called themselves progressive or something.

I'm just going to assume that the information you're presenting is faulty or cherrypicked, 'cause this whole thing reeks of conspiracy theory.

Thank you. Though I disagree with the claim that current progressives are a cult. There are no doubt cultish elements on the far fringes, but the same is true of most political factions.

And AOC is not one of the cultish elements, by the way. And who gives a crap about some tiny Communist party that will never gain any power and influence? Socialism =/= Communism. Progressivism =/= Communism.

And the moment you spouted that "social engineering" bullcrap, you lost all credibility in my eyes.

Wtf even _is_ social engineering?

Socialism =/= Genocide

Ffs.

K, I still don't quite understand what it's supposed to be, but whatever.

Genocide is a symptom of authoritarianism. _Communism_ leads to authoritarianism. Socialism is different from Communism.

No, it doesn't. No, it's not. No, they don't.

There is a difference between "Socialized healthcare" and "PAPERZ, COMRADE"

@Jokerfaic I'm a girl, but yeah, pretty much.

Oh.

Well, yeah, but people like AOC and Warren and everyone are fighting for exactly that.

You know what I mean, Joker.

@Jym If you genuinely failed to understand what I was saying, I don't think I can bring myself to keep talking to you. It's like talking to a brick wall.

Yeah, well I care about the people dying from a lack of basic medical care.

So forgive me for drawing the line beyond "just the police."

And etc.

Lying about what? What I believe? What would I gain from that?

And proving me wrong how? All you've done so far is make false equivalencies - strawman me.

No, I am not.

You keep acting like anything socialist will lead to a communist dystopia.

That is the very definition of strawmanning. Anyone affiliated with the Democrats _must_ be corrupt somehow. And fair enough, Joker.

Anyway, I gotta go eat dinner, so, regrettably, this is where I must bow out. Aaaaaaand I retract the regrettably. You have carried yourself excellently, Joker, and Jym has done anything but.

Hmmm... Would it be fair to say one of the main differences between the worldview of Conservatives and Liberals would be cynnicism vs optimism? I notice that a lot of Conservatives seem to be more afraid of Liberal policies than hopeful for Conservative ones, whereas most Liberals I see seem to be more optimistic, focused on the future, and eager to change the world for the better. Many Conservatives seem to be afraid of change, and all the dangers that might come with it, while Liberals seem desperate for change, frustrated and despairing over everything wrong with the world as it is. I sometimes wonder if the current political divide could be summed up by
"Liberals: This thing is falling apart, and doesn't work as well as it needs to. Come on, let's fix it already!
Conservatives: Stop! You might break it! You're gonna break it!"
To be fair, neither is entirely wrong. The Liberal _could_ break it, and the Conservative _could_ neglect it into oblivion.


...Random musings! :D

That took so long to type 'cuz my friend's dog is needy af.

Yeah, same kinda. Though I'm progressive, and alternate between cynnical and optimistic.

But I have noticed that it seems to be a trend in general, at least among people who weren't just indoctrinated into an alignment and refuse to consider they might be wrong about anything.

It does seem to punctuate the chat, huh?

I don't even know what Greta is. Or I don't remember. Not sure which. Greta who?

Or Greta what?

Is Greta an acronym? And I can attest to that, Joker.

Oh, her!

Greta is awesome. I mean, she is a child, and doesn't have the same resources as a politician, so she should be viewed through a different lens than politicians. Greta Thornberry is dedicated and earnest af.

She frickin' sailed across the ocean to get from Sweden to America for that UN summit. No worries; I can't remember her last name, either, as you can see XD

I'm just saying, she's a dedicated kid.

It's impressive.

I couldn't and wouldn't do anything like that _now._

And I'm, like, six years older than her? Greta's about 12, right?

Jym, just stop.

Oh.

So I'm two years older than her.

Still. It's impressive.

And she isn't entirely wrong about things, either. The world is slowly dying due to the actions of older generations that will never live to see the fallout, efforts to slow, stop, and reverse climate change are being actively sabotaged by the same generation, and previous generations have the audacity to look to _us_ for hope? You have sewn the seeds for our demise, and you dare to expect _us_ to be your salvation? It _is_ insulting. It _is_ wrong. It _is_ shameful.

I can confirm that it is absolutely infuriating to see people deny reality, look down upon _anyone_ who speaks out, to see people protecting our futures painted as fucking _Stalinists,_ and to then be told that it's _my_ generation's responsibility to save this planet.

I'm calling bullshit, Jym.

I am making a far better case than you. You seek to dismiss or discredit those who oppose you, rather than making any actual arguments against their points. You misdirect, lie, deceive, and mischaracterize. If I am angry, it is because I have a _right_ to be angry. Or is that a luxury allowed only to Conservatives?

People like you make me sick, Jym.

All countries SHOULD contribute, Joker. People in the US are just seeking to do what they can to lessen the burden however they can. For US citizens, that is working to make the US do more to help fight climate change.

There are global efforts to fight climate change, too, of course. Do you think Greta was scolding the US alone? She was scolding the _entire_ united nations.

China would do whatever it could to gain power. We must keep a close eye on Xi Xinping, lest he try and expand his influence further. But protecting the climate and not giving China control of the Earth are NOT mutually exclusive.

@Jym That's good.

Let's keep going.

I didn't say Greta was right about everything. I said she was right to be angry.

I don't give a fuck about where some rich idiot buys a house, even if they are Liberal.

She has a right to be angry. Any progress we might be making is nowhere near enough. Also, Greta's parents were influenced by her, not the other way around. Her mom changed careers to support her daughter's commitment to fighting climate change.

@UnScottable So you get off on pissing off Liberals, then?

I gather that.

I REALLY wish these people didn't influence the fate of our world.

^

But also, the carbon emissions. The fate of our world is being defined by spite.

It's repugnant.

Our civilization seems destined to die.

By "the world," I meant human civilization and most life on earth, not the planet itself.

Why give af either way, then, UnScott?

You make an active effort to sabotage environmentists, UnScott. Why bother?

And?

But we can prolong the planet's life long enough to escape it. There IS hope.

I have not, but every bit of horror I see just reminds me of the need to fight against it.

We can do better. And we can push the entire world to do better.

We just have to have hope, and keep trying.

I HAVE seen campaigns in India and Africa, Edog.

*China and India.