#serious (Discord ID: 486385308951379968) in The Right Server, page 25
Security Advisory: Links in messages may lead to maliciously operated websites that could track your IP address and reveal your identity, or they may contain harmful files. The DiscordLeaks team does not check links and cannot make any statements about the safety of following these links.
Some ways to protect yourself are:
- Do not open files downloaded from links, and do not run any programs that try to download themselves to your computer.
- Use anonymization measures such as Tor Browser or a VPN.
If you are using the Privacy Badger or other privacy extensions, you may need to whitelist Discord and related domains in order for the images to load.
God: I am the first and the last
Jesus: I am the first and the last
There is one God!
The Trinity teaching is one God
No, the Trinity means three persons
But one divine being
So three persons, one God.
**John 20:28 - New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)**
<28> Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!" ```
Thomas calls Jesus his Lord and **his God**
Something like that
And he also calls him his God!
**John 20:28-30 - New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)**
The Purpose of This Book
<28> Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!" <29> Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have come to believe."<30> Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book. ```
If Jesus was not God, he would've corrected Thomas's apparent blasphemy!
Also notice this
**Exodus 3:14 - New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)**
<14> God said to Moses, "I am who I am." He said further, "Thus you shall say to the Israelites, 'I am has sent me to you.'" ```
**John 8:58 - New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)**
<58> Jesus said to them, "Very truly, I tell you, before Abraham was, I am." ```
God identifies himself as "I AM"
Jesus speaks of his prehuman existence, and instead of using the past tense, uses the PRESENT tense divine name "I AM"
**Acts 20:28 - New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)**
<28> Keep watch over yourselves and over all the flock, of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God that he obtained with the blood of his own Son. ```
**Revelation 1:5-6 - New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)**
<5> and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and freed us from our sins by his blood, <6> and made us to be a kingdom, priests serving his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen. ```
Acts: God purchased us with his blood, Revelation: Jesus purchased us with his blood
**John 1:1-3 - New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)**
The Word Became Flesh
<1> In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. <2> He was in the beginning with God. <3> All things came into being through him, and without him not one thing came into being. What has come into being ```
1:1 The Logos (Jesus) is God
1:2 Jesus was here from the beginning
1:3 Jesus created all things
**Luke 2:11 - New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)**
<11> to you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is the Messiah, the Lord. ```
Jesus is the Savior
**Isaiah 43:11 - New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)**
<11> I, I am the Lord, and besides me there is no savior. ```
God says there is no other savior besides himself in the OT
But somehow Jesus is the savior!
The Bible makes a distinction between Jesus and the angels in Hebrews
**Hebrews 1:8 - New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)**
<8> But of the Son he says,"Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of your kingdom. ```
The Father calls Jesus God
Are you by chance a Jehovah Witness?
You seem to be one
no God the Son was always God
the Son pre-existed creation
and show in your own bible
eternally begotten from the Father
how jesus is god
**John 8:58 - New King James Version (NKJV)**
<58> Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."```
no the angels were created along with the rest of the universe
they were created before us but they are created beings
anyway JW Bible isn't a good translation
it translate that passage as "I have been" instead of "I am"
despite the greek word being present tense
I don't think it ever says exactly when he was created but the Bible talks about the morning stars singing together for joy
**Job 38:6-7 - New King James Version (NKJV)**
<6> To what were its foundations fastened? Or who laid its cornerstone, <7> When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy? ```
this is during the creation of the earth
so they pre-dated earth but they are still created beings
I don't want to say exactly when because I don't believe there's any teaching on that
it's just a comparison you don't need to take it literally
satan's not literally the morning star
Heads up, y'all better check /pol/. We got suspicions on Ford being Amy Schumer. Not kidding http://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/187281550
they have found nothing of value in any of the threads
Well I just found this video interesting. https://youtu.be/CuhLRzP2-0Y
Man was never made to be free
In any sense
biblical or logically
Sounds kind of authoritarian.
Anyway I have to admit yesterday did not go well. Because repbuclicans didn't play the evidence card like we should have.
talk here instead
You’ve so far not had any original arguments
All just issues you dislike about God, you have no say in what is Moral to do off God’s judgement
He created morality
Jesus came in life and died for everyone
He saved us at that point
So you’re basically Hillary Clinton?
Being against gay marriage whenever it’s popular
So why would you only like Christians?
What values do you like specially
You complained that Islamists can rape and do terror but only get deported
Sounds like the punishment wasn’t enough for you?
The Bible is quite big, you should be able to cite individual verses to each issue you refer to @Krass
Otherwise you shouldn’t really talk about them to begin with
Problem of suffering?
@Krass So you’re saying you’re purposely repeating what someone else told you?
>assuming there’s pointless suffering to begin with
You can know a lot about Christianity but how you present it can be different
I am saying you are following someone else, you are a follower
You are a follower
@Krass You are following one individual who has studied Christianity, this would be a better convo if you knew some of your claims and seen it for yourself
I don’t even know who you learnt from
Was it a priest?
What’s not true?
Dude you’re right here using roles to present yourself as Christian but you’re claiming God is not real.
But why do you claim to be Orthodox when you don’t believe in God?
You’re white correct?
A big chunk of Europeans are atheists
It’s first world countries that have the most atheists I would believe
Yeah, western Europe has a lot of atheists
And parts of Eastern Europe
I don’t think it’s serving the countries well
Eastern european atheists lmao
The only country that I know is atheistic and is borderline east is the Czech Republic
You should know
we're very religious
like well above 90%
Again it depends on where in Eastern Europe you are @Memel 🎃
well im geographically not eastern european
Romania may be quite Christian
but the amerimutts think i am so i'll go with that
Czechia is very much not Christian
Romania is Central European
Poland is quite Christian
the Czech Republic is a degenerate country
prostitution, sex, atheism
Also when I say eastern Europe I mean the former Commie block
but that's a political division
not a geographic one
It is geographical as well
There is a Europe that is more western
Germany is right in the middle
Italy is also right in the middle but south
yeah but like
Norway is right in the middle but north
Greece wouldn't be eastern european
it was a part of the commie block for a short period of time
it wouldnt make sense
Well I am not interested in this debate
Let me rephrase
im glad we could end this good sire
The former Eastern block is either very Religious or atheist
Poland is very Religious, Czechia is very much not so
you mean marry a woman
Why do you wish to marry someone and walk away from them
stop being a polygamic fuck
I doubt he mean’t thag
or even divorce
I mean why would you be an atheist and manipulate a Religious woman
You convince someone else that you are devoutly Christian in order to marry them when you aren’t really
So you wish to keep a marriage based on lies
So you wish to manipulate someone?
<@141430331717844992> Well if devoutly Religious enough she wouldn’t divorce
But probably feel deeply manipulated off that
Manipulation is Devilish
You are enslaving a person to follow your will and demands, and essentially lead them away from God to serve you. Anything against God is towards the "self", and follows the attitude of the demons of Hell
Morality is defined by God and violations of the moral commandments declared by God can be punished by God in accordance to His will. As I have stated before, the old covenant was rigid and harsh in order to establish God's people and make them distinct from the rest of the world. In essence, it assured loyalty unto God. Jesus is not different in character from Yahweh because they are the same. They are God. When Jesus was incarnated in the flesh, he enacted the plan of God of mercy and the salvation of the gentiles. In the Old Testament, through the prophets, he established the laws and punishments for those laws. On the day of judgement, Jesus, being the God the Son, will testify to God the Father, of men in accordance to what they have done. If one has known Jesus and has followed him, mercy and glory shall be upon Him. If not, he will be cast out and into Gehenna for violation of God's commandments.
I really don't see any inconsistency
Morality is invariant, but how violations of those morals and turning to sin are dealt with in accordance to the established covenants. We draw principle from the Old Testament. We know the Adultery is a sin because God has declared it so. However, it is no longer sin to eat pork because we are under the new covenant.
@Thule-Gesellschaft [☩] The morality does not change, but the laws do in accordance to the need. If we follow the logic that Yahweh was not God and was instead something demonic than all that followed Yahweh's commandments are damned to Hell. There would be no salvation for those of the Old Testament faith.
Without the laws of the Old Testament, the New Testmanent has no substance or weight. There is no reason to follow the New Testament without the Old.
The prophecies give Christ the legitimacy to defy the Pharisees and to heal those afflicted by Demons on the Sabbath. I'd say that Moral Truths are what are in accordance to the will of God and are reflected throughout the teachings of the Prophets, Saints, Apostles, and Christ Himself. If your philosophy is wrong, which was the case of the Roman Catholics when they tried to define God and put Him into the box, your ideas and your morality are wrong. And this goes for everything, if God is not involved in it and it isn't derived from God I'd say it hardly lacks substance
To be moral you must submit firstly to God and recognise the fact that humans, despite their great ability to reason, are incompabable of fully holding to truth and goodness.
It is dangerous to speak on matters you do not hold comprehension about. Just because your personal intuition tells you you shouldn't give charity and you use logic to reason that the poor man is undeserving of charity does not make you correct.
Living in accordance to God's will is what makes a man moral, not of what he personally thinks. However, men should know that they do not always have the ability to hold so closely to God and His morality, and that they are weak and fallible before him.
The whole point of human life is to honour God and give glory unto Him as his servants. Doing this does not necessarily come from developing philosophy and constantly debating, but following what God has taught you because you love God. Despite it may not being immediately apparent. John 20:29
**John 20:29 - New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)**
<29> Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have come to believe."```
So you're telling me that God was unjust?
@Thule-Gesellschaft [☩] That is what he said. If we deny that, which is part of the First Commandment of the 10, we may also deny the seventh which forbids adultery.
You don't get to decide what is cruel or unjust, it is what God desires. They were killed for their opposition against the Israelites and their horrid idol worship that was too much of a stain against God's people and was corrupting His people.
The difference is that I worship the one God and they do not.
It is loyalty to God
You don't get to pick and chose what parts of the Bible you like. You either accept it or you don't.
I say that morality is defined by God and if God defines it as moral it is moral and if it isn't it isn't. There's no room for discussion.
God had a reason for destroying those tribes, as they threatened His people. He was justified in what He had done.
Threatened his people by corrupting them.
They were sources of corruption threatening identity of the Israelites.
We do not know the reasonings for what God has done to some and what He has done to others. We have no reason to question Him or any justification in doing so, because we are made to be in His Image and to give Glory unto Him.
Timotheoes, why shouldn't we question God when he does not provide justification for his actions? Shouldn't we want to follow him if we know he is just?
I'm unable to believe something is justified simply because a higher authority has told me so.
Give me a moment, I'm formulating a response
@Krass I pray for your marriage manipulation to end in failure
Psalm 143:10 Shows us that the will of man and the will of God are not the same. This means that man will view some seemingly inconsistent things being done through the Old Testament and the New Testament, but they are not inconsistent if we are to believe that God is of the 3 o's. There is a plan to all of which God does and all in which God teaches. The teaching changes in accordance with new revelation but the will of God remains eternal. It is likely that God willed for mercy when he established the Old Covenant but also willed that his people keep strictly to Him and what was required for this was punishment. Ultimately, what makes man just, is living in accordance to principles and having Faith in God. The New Testament takes priority over the Old because the Old Covenant has been fufilled with Christ and a new covenant of great mercy has been established. This do not mean that justice has gone away, but rather the manifestation of God's mercy reigns in this now time. But God tells us that this time is finite and that we must repent if we are to be shielded from the full unadultered punishment of hell and sin.
**Psalm 143:10 - New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)**
<10> Teach me to do your will, for you are my God. Let your good spirit lead me on a level path. ```
You aren't led to Truth, which is God, through your reasoning or from the World. What leads you to God is beginning first with God and then establishing everything else from there. If you have no foundation, a building cannot stand.
Just appeal to divine command theory to justify any of God’s actions, but if they contradict His commands... ouch
So God expressing punishment and anger is in contradiction to mercy?
So God is acting unjustly when he punishes and destroys those who worship Baal and sacrifice children that are corrupting His people?
Was the destruction of Sodom and Gemorah unjust?
Why can't he simply explain to them the problem and help them learn from their actions? That would be just.
Why is a child innocent? Why would you live a vengeful seed in the ground to rise as yet another threat to the Israelites?
@Thule-Gesellschaft [☩] Despite them interacting and trading with the Israelites and members of the Israelites coming to them and being among them?
Salvation during this time was for the Israelites, not for Philistines or the Unjust peoples.
Was King David an Israelite?
do you judge monarchs from 3000 years ago for fighting wars the way they did back then
You do know that Jesus is called the Son of David in his earthly form right? And that, through the geneology, was a biological Israelite.
So Christ is unjust and spread wickedness
God's plan is designed for humanity's salvation and for a human world
that God needed to allow war to be fought like that does not mean it's the moral way to fight wars
By your logic, he'd be of the corrupt and wicked seed as an Israelite.
it means that that was what had to happen for the plan
it's not tenuous to claim it's one of the most important foundations for him being the Christ
if Jesus isn't of that bloodline then He doesn't fulfill Old Testament prophecies
@agag He denies that the God of the Old Testament is the God of the new.
I know that
if Christ doesn't fulfill the Messiah prophecies then He's not the Messiah
The prophecies give legitamacy to Christ and establish Him as divine.
but if the prophecy isn't fulfilled then Christ is not who He claimed to be
and who his disciples claimed Him to be
faith in Jesus requires believing that He fulfilled the Old Testament prophecies
and was the Messiah
You might as well ignore scripture then and develop your own idea on what Christ was outside of the people who actually spoke of Him and knew Him.
Christ is contingent on what inspired prophecies say the Christ would be like
sorry but that's not how it works
You cannot claim to follow Christ if you ignore what he taught.
the Church is needed for that
the Apostles were given the authority to teach the Gospel
no now you're projecting what you think about them
by what standard?
Complex temple rituals, religious calendar, mythology
I don't see them as any more primitive than their neighbors
So it is comparable to every other civilization
their mythology and calendar were no more primitive than their neighbors'
and neither was their temple worship
you're underestimating the major religious sectarianism in first century Judea
are you serious?