#english (Discord ID: 308995540782284817) in /leftypol/ International, page 70


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2018-01-31 17:38:53 UTC

I know my shit

2018-01-31 17:38:55 UTC

Nope.

2018-01-31 17:39:15 UTC

Have you even read MK

2018-01-31 17:39:15 UTC

If that was the case, why did hitler allow blacks in his army?

2018-01-31 17:39:25 UTC

Or anything by Dr pierce

2018-01-31 17:39:35 UTC

Pure biological materialism

2018-01-31 17:39:54 UTC

And here we go with the revisionism

2018-01-31 17:40:38 UTC

Of course I read MK, infact I read the reich approved STALAG edition.

2018-01-31 17:41:32 UTC

By my guess, you read the editions that were rewritten and editted nearly entirely by major publishing companies.

2018-01-31 17:42:15 UTC

i read the murphy edition from 1939

2018-01-31 17:42:31 UTC

sold by an nsbm record label

2018-01-31 17:42:37 UTC

Kikeitalism

2018-01-31 17:42:48 UTC

Wow, how trustworthy.

2018-01-31 17:43:02 UTC

thats the real reason N"S" will never go anywhere

2018-01-31 17:43:08 UTC

hybrid revisionism

2018-01-31 17:43:14 UTC

with the hollywood narrative

2018-01-31 17:43:29 UTC

Hmm?

2018-01-31 17:44:01 UTC

Is the reich approved stalag edition that was published in 1922 not trustworthy?

2018-01-31 17:44:13 UTC

i'm sure it is

2018-01-31 17:45:19 UTC

the murphy translation was co-opted with the nsdap as well

2018-01-31 17:45:48 UTC

Was it a paper or PDF version?

2018-01-31 17:46:10 UTC

paper

2018-01-31 17:47:11 UTC

So that means it was a republished newer version, meaning that it was open to edit's deletions, and rewirtes.

2018-01-31 17:47:35 UTC

i was a hitlerite for years i know all about it

2018-01-31 17:47:41 UTC

its not real socialism

2018-01-31 17:47:48 UTC

and its not practical

2018-01-31 17:48:04 UTC

And also, you just doxxed yourself.

2018-01-31 17:48:10 UTC

too racially autistic

2018-01-31 17:48:19 UTC

how

2018-01-31 17:48:45 UTC

Personal location was preset....

2018-01-31 17:49:11 UTC

Too late pal, I screenshotted it.

2018-01-31 17:49:49 UTC

oh ok

2018-01-31 17:50:32 UTC

Of course, I hear this argument by both alt-rights, and socialists.

2018-01-31 17:50:54 UTC

It is not marxist socialism, and was never designed to match it.

2018-01-31 17:51:15 UTC

syndicalism is not marxist socialism but generally accepted as socialism

2018-01-31 17:51:30 UTC

No?

2018-01-31 17:51:32 UTC

3rd way is arguably a form of socialism as well

2018-01-31 17:51:36 UTC

I have not heard that claim.

2018-01-31 17:51:58 UTC

no one believes that hitlerism is socialism but hitlerites themselves

2018-01-31 17:52:13 UTC

and normies of course

2018-01-31 17:52:34 UTC

Not in a marxist sense, for natsocs.

2018-01-31 17:53:23 UTC

bakuninites are anti marxist and socialist

2018-01-31 17:53:38 UTC

strasserites like myself are not marxists but socialist

2018-01-31 17:53:41 UTC

juche as well

2018-01-31 17:54:29 UTC

falangist italian fascists

2018-01-31 17:54:32 UTC

moseleyites

2018-01-31 17:54:39 UTC

all socialists

2018-01-31 17:54:46 UTC

hitlerism is not socialism

2018-01-31 17:55:10 UTC

Falange was never socialist, mosley was never socialist , and neither was hitler.

2018-01-31 17:55:39 UTC

And, what makes hitler not socialist?

2018-01-31 17:55:59 UTC

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/308995540782284817/408319517937238017/Capture.JPG

2018-01-31 17:56:21 UTC

the fact that all the real socialists were purged and exiled in the night of the long knives

2018-01-31 17:56:48 UTC

What makes them real socialists?

2018-01-31 17:57:33 UTC

and moseley wrote a book titled european socialism which was a call for a british take on syndicalism

2018-01-31 17:57:42 UTC

workers owned the means of production

2018-01-31 17:57:47 UTC

abolition of private property

2018-01-31 17:57:52 UTC

abolition of wages

2018-01-31 17:57:56 UTC

guilds

2018-01-31 17:57:59 UTC

Wait a minute.

2018-01-31 17:58:32 UTC

How do you know that is the real definition of socialism?

2018-01-31 17:59:22 UTC

by anyone thats not some asshole berniecrat or a hitlerite

2018-01-31 17:59:39 UTC

abolition of private property/workers own the means of production

2018-01-31 18:00:05 UTC

So you don't know.

2018-01-31 18:00:37 UTC

well you ask 10 people with 10 different political identies you'll get more than a handful of different answers

2018-01-31 18:00:58 UTC

but to anyone who identifies as a socialist but not a hitlerite it will be along those lines

2018-01-31 18:01:12 UTC

And how do you separate the true definition from them?

2018-01-31 18:01:48 UTC

obviously the people who know their shit

2018-01-31 18:02:09 UTC

And so do I, and I call myself a socialist.

2018-01-31 18:02:29 UTC

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/308995540782284817/408321152566689793/Capture.JPG

2018-01-31 18:02:44 UTC

Wow, google, what a good source.

2018-01-31 18:02:47 UTC

and i bet you'd call syndicalism a jooish invention as well

2018-01-31 18:03:05 UTC

you can't have private property and socialism at the same time

2018-01-31 18:03:23 UTC

N"S" germany had private property

2018-01-31 18:03:24 UTC

Nope, if I did, I would be calling the falange and franco jews.

2018-01-31 18:03:26 UTC

not socialism

2018-01-31 18:03:34 UTC

How do you know that?

2018-01-31 18:03:43 UTC

oh i've seeen it before

2018-01-31 18:03:49 UTC

alt retards

2018-01-31 18:04:00 UTC

and no

2018-01-31 18:04:00 UTC

What?

2018-01-31 18:04:13 UTC

You don't know it?

2018-01-31 18:04:15 UTC

franco wasn't a syndicalist he betrayed the falange

2018-01-31 18:05:52 UTC

True, but the falange also supported franco at first, but this is an attempt to set me off track, so let's get back to the original topic.

2018-01-31 18:07:12 UTC

Ask any none Hitlerist in this server if Hitler was a socialist everyone will tell you no

2018-01-31 18:08:53 UTC

In the context that he is a leftist and marxist socialist before, but this is another attempt to derail the question, so let's go back.

2018-01-31 18:09:35 UTC

How do you know that workers have to own the factories, in order for it to be socialist?

2018-01-31 18:10:03 UTC

if they don't that means its private property and not socialist

2018-01-31 18:10:12 UTC

How do you know?

2018-01-31 18:10:28 UTC

You clearly don't, do you?

2018-01-31 18:10:29 UTC

Sorel, Bakunin, Strasser, Codreanu

2018-01-31 18:10:50 UTC

to name non marxists

2018-01-31 18:10:55 UTC

Kim il Sung

2018-01-31 18:11:23 UTC

Cordreanu believed in legionaireism, something I doubt you know anything about.

2018-01-31 18:11:51 UTC

clerical fascism

2018-01-31 18:12:03 UTC

and yes a good friend of mine is a romanian fash

2018-01-31 18:12:21 UTC

And, you are only giving me a list of non marxists, nothing that confirms your belief.

2018-01-31 18:12:50 UTC

non marxists that would agree that private property is capitalist

2018-01-31 18:13:10 UTC

you're grasping at straws

2018-01-31 18:13:13 UTC

That is quite the generalization there.

2018-01-31 18:13:31 UTC

And, I would disagree with you.

2018-01-31 18:14:33 UTC

clerical fascism, italian, falange etc

2018-01-31 18:14:40 UTC

were all derived from sorel

2018-01-31 18:14:54 UTC

Nope.

2018-01-31 18:15:26 UTC

Sorel is what turned mussolini away from the reds

2018-01-31 18:15:42 UTC

I don't think evola or mousillini even mentioned sorel in their interviews.

2018-01-31 18:16:38 UTC

Mussolini went to Sorels funeral

2018-01-31 18:16:44 UTC

Okay?

2018-01-31 18:17:02 UTC

Sorel approved of mussolini for his syndicalist views

2018-01-31 18:17:04 UTC

Didn't hitler attend some of the RAF funerals?

2018-01-31 18:17:36 UTC

Cultured Thug did a whole presentation on Sorel and his link to fascism

2018-01-31 18:18:05 UTC

So in that case, woulden't he be fascist?

2018-01-31 18:19:09 UTC

Sorel is often considered a proto-fascist

2018-01-31 18:19:23 UTC

but he's a weird one he'd go back and forth from being an ansyn to natsyn

2018-01-31 18:20:40 UTC

Okay? If he was ultimately considered a fascist and a national syndicalist, then why would you even cite him as a socialist?

2018-01-31 18:21:15 UTC

because syndicalism is a form of socialism

2018-01-31 18:24:06 UTC

>Falangists destroy CNT FAI
>Mousillini purges communists and anarchists
What?

2018-01-31 18:24:37 UTC

because they were'nt the same kind of socialists

2018-01-31 18:24:43 UTC

By that definition, WW2 was leftist infighting.

2018-01-31 18:25:02 UTC

and radically different views on social issues

2018-01-31 18:27:06 UTC

Fascism is not a left or right worldview

2018-01-31 18:28:40 UTC

Now hold on, there is no way that a socialist would be somebody like cordreanu, or mousillini, because, they fight for both their race, and nation, and an economy that benefits the NATION.

2018-01-31 18:29:37 UTC

their economies were syndicalist

2018-01-31 18:29:41 UTC

de facto socialism

2018-01-31 18:31:14 UTC

So you call it socialist, but in reality it is just yours by claim?

2018-01-31 18:33:05 UTC

its not marxist socialism

2018-01-31 18:33:08 UTC

but its socialism

2018-01-31 18:33:49 UTC

every great nationalist movement has had some socialist ideals if not a very socialist economy

2018-01-31 18:34:34 UTC

every great socialist state has been somewhat nationalistic if not atleast patriotic

2018-01-31 19:17:36 UTC

To the fascist state comes first but had syndicalist economies

2018-01-31 19:18:11 UTC

So you then admit that national socialism IS socialism? You have no good reason to believe that socialism means that workers own everything, and afterall, the people you have provided have worked against you, because some allowed private production methods, meaning that national socialism has every reason to call itself socialism.

2018-01-31 19:18:50 UTC

To the socialist the likes of Stalin, Mao, Kim il sung etc class came first but had very strong patriotism and nationalism

2018-01-31 19:19:08 UTC

That is true.

2018-01-31 19:19:19 UTC

...a little.

2018-01-31 19:20:09 UTC

Hitlerism is more akin to social democracy and is the forebearer of the current nordic model

2018-01-31 19:20:44 UTC

Nordic countries used to be mildly ethnocentric as well

2018-01-31 19:23:36 UTC

So while its not you're waspy capitalism

2018-01-31 19:23:44 UTC

Its still capitalism

2018-01-31 20:07:41 UTC

So in other words, you cocede that it is.

2018-02-01 03:35:16 UTC

@Krieg#0336 I've always thought that Nazi Germany was a corporatist economy where the Government had a lot of influence over capitalist monopolies, nowhere near a social democracy ala Nordic countries. Also, on Mousillini being a National Syndicalist, from what I heard he abandond Syndicalism quite quickly. Correct me if I'm wrong, however.
And for the record, I would personally accept Strasserism as a form of socialism, albeit a bastard child of socialism and fascism.

2018-02-01 08:08:49 UTC
2018-02-01 17:22:30 UTC

@Builderelf You thought wrong.

2018-02-01 17:23:10 UTC

Corpratism was more of a mousillini and pelley thing.

2018-02-01 18:11:43 UTC

Any IWW member in here?

2018-02-01 18:12:04 UTC

@stratagast Hi Doom.

2018-02-01 20:38:20 UTC

@Krieg#0336

2018-02-01 20:38:22 UTC

What is your reading list of Strasserism?

2018-02-01 22:32:37 UTC

@Builderelf corporatism by definition is the organization of society based on collectives ie like in italy businesses of the same industry would be merged into one. They called it fascist syndicalism.

2018-02-01 22:33:22 UTC

@Тхе Западни Србин#1770 https://revolutionarynationalsocialism.wordpress.com/

2018-02-01 22:37:15 UTC

@Krieg#0336 But I thought the key thing of syndicalism was that it was owned by the workers, not the government?

2018-02-02 01:08:11 UTC

Yeah, I’m in the IWW. I’m new though, just joined last month @stratagast

2018-02-02 01:15:53 UTC

Also @Deleted User @kriegsmariner VA lemme do a bit of research here, I’ll try and find the people that said Germany was corporatist, and look at some of their sources. I’ll be back

2018-02-02 01:16:55 UTC

@Builderelf Sources?

2018-02-02 01:17:03 UTC

Germany? Corporatist?

2018-02-02 01:18:07 UTC

lulz yeah germany was basically a racist social democracy

2018-02-02 01:20:04 UTC

mussolini was a staunch sorelianist

2018-02-02 01:44:47 UTC

I disagree with that.

2018-02-02 01:46:00 UTC

>mixed economy

2018-02-02 01:46:04 UTC

>welfare state

2018-02-02 01:46:11 UTC

>wages

2018-02-02 01:58:11 UTC

>Welfare state
What do you mean by that?
>Mixed economy
If by mixed, you mean both government and owned properties with a common goal, then sure.
>Wages
What relevance does this have?

2018-02-02 02:00:12 UTC

@Builderelf I think that when people mention fascism, they usually get the idea of italy, and how it had some corpratism, but they forget, that italian fascism, national socialism, legionaireism, falange, and more, had many differences, with a common idea.

2018-02-02 02:00:50 UTC

all of those except hitlerian NS yes

2018-02-02 02:01:05 UTC

capitalism is to individual

2018-02-02 02:01:11 UTC

communism to class

2018-02-02 02:01:15 UTC

fascism to state

2018-02-02 02:01:19 UTC

N"S" to race

2018-02-02 02:01:21 UTC

Unless it is somewhere like vichy france where it was a german/italian occupied place, it would most likely have an independant system.

2018-02-02 02:02:11 UTC

Okay, from what I see and what I'm researching right now, I could definetly see @Krieg#0336's arguement for Germany being a "racist social democracy". For instance:
-Taxation was high
-Government spending was through the roof
-Private business was allowed to operate
-Healthcare was a thing
-Keynes himself LIKED the Germany economy
-Pensions were even given out, apparently

However, I'm also seeing elements of totalitarianism in there. For instance, State-Run Trade Unions designed to squeeze out productivity in factories. Also, military spending took was as high as 32% of the budget-- that doesn't sound like a Social Democracy at all! Additionally, the reason that public projects such as job programs and industry protectionism seems to be mainly for the sake of increasing productivy of home industries, not for the sake of basic human rights, as it is in Nordic countries.

So in other words, I'd place Hitlerist economics as an Authoritarian-Right version of Social Democracy. Not quite corporatism, not quite social democracy, a strange kind of militaritic totalitarian welfare state.

2018-02-02 02:02:26 UTC

@Krieg#0336 Fascism and national socialism do not believe in devolution of the class, which is something that communism and socialism want, but rather they want both the worker, and the owner, and the government cooperating for the benefit of the nation.

2018-02-02 02:03:08 UTC

why yes, this is true. I know a fascist friend that claims that fascism calls for "Class Collaboration, not Class Warfare", so thats correct @Deleted User

2018-02-02 02:03:39 UTC

well duh its easier to work together when one class isn't fucking the other

2018-02-02 02:03:43 UTC

@Builderelf That is one of the biggest characteristics of national socialism, as well as the italian, romanian, spanish, and more, is that it cannot be mapped on a simple political scale that is determined by an alogorithm.

2018-02-02 02:03:45 UTC

I would also agree that fascist economics has more diversity than people give it credit for.

2018-02-02 02:04:08 UTC

fascism isn't an economic system more of a world view

2018-02-02 02:04:16 UTC

or principles

2018-02-02 02:04:31 UTC

Then again @Deleted User , thats because political compass tests are actually cancerous ways of viewing politics

2018-02-02 02:04:40 UTC

closest thing to experiencing fascism in america would be like being in the military or a sports team

2018-02-02 02:05:06 UTC

yeah, fascism has more roots in politics if anything. Probably why history classes don't cover it's economy very much and why fascist economics are so diverse.

2018-02-02 02:05:31 UTC

i mean Mussolini called Stalin a fascist

2018-02-02 02:05:38 UTC

@Builderelf Ah yes, according to MK, next leap, and a squires trial, a person needs to do what they are best at, and using that skill, they produce products and more, to benefit the state, or that is the very generalized and summarized version of it.

2018-02-02 02:05:45 UTC

@Krieg#0336 Citation needed.

2018-02-02 02:06:15 UTC

Red Fascism

2018-02-02 02:06:36 UTC

@Krieg#0336 big oof

2018-02-02 02:06:47 UTC

@Builderelf History classes hardly teach you anything.

2018-02-02 02:07:09 UTC

true

2018-02-02 02:07:23 UTC

but then again, my latest history classes have been a lot better

2018-02-02 02:07:46 UTC

for instance, my current history teacher is W O K E af

2018-02-02 02:08:06 UTC

I don't think that makes the course inhereintly better, however.

2018-02-02 02:08:30 UTC

he legit knows what Mutualism, Anarcho-Syndicalism, Marx's Labor Theory of Value etc. are. I have NEVER seen a history teacher talk about any of that. He's pretty fricking lit.

2018-02-02 02:08:50 UTC

hell, he's the sponsor for my socialist club

2018-02-02 02:08:56 UTC

so overall a pretty cool dude

2018-02-02 02:09:03 UTC

i mean true @Deleted User

2018-02-02 02:09:15 UTC

but I still think he covers a lot in his US history classes

2018-02-02 02:09:26 UTC

I sure learned a lot.

2018-02-02 02:09:27 UTC

Interesting, it seems that more predictions are coming true.

2018-02-02 02:09:36 UTC

what predictions did you have?

2018-02-02 02:09:57 UTC

Oh I was referring to GLR's and the elder's of zion's predictions.

2018-02-02 02:11:09 UTC

Anyways, I seriously doubt that you will still cover that much within US history, granted you will learn some more info, but not *that* much more, since like previous classes, you will have to cover around 400-200 years of history in less than a year.

2018-02-02 02:12:02 UTC

well, as far as America is concerned it can cover a lot. obviously I won't learn shit about, say, South Africa or something.

2018-02-02 02:12:28 UTC

But I learned about some pretty major Labor Unions within the mid-late 19th century up to the early 20th century.

2018-02-02 02:12:44 UTC

Okay?

2018-02-02 02:13:02 UTC

That isn't really much to go off of....

2018-02-02 02:13:24 UTC

I mean yhea, there were labour unions..... haven't they always existed since the early industrial revolution?

2018-02-02 02:14:17 UTC

well obviously, I just didn't know that the AFL or the Knight of Labor were a thing.

2018-02-02 02:14:36 UTC

Specifically those labor unions.

2018-02-02 02:15:06 UTC

but I see your point nonetheless, the American education system is in desperate need for reform.

2018-02-02 02:15:12 UTC

If not a comeplete overhaul.

2018-02-02 02:15:50 UTC

I'm just saying that it's not 100% terrible, because sometimes you get a good class (like my AP US history class)

2018-02-02 02:16:08 UTC

I like it.

2018-02-02 02:16:17 UTC

Then again, I am in a super funded school.

2018-02-02 02:19:43 UTC

Fair enough.

2018-02-02 02:19:52 UTC

either way, hope you have a nice evevning.

2018-02-02 02:28:25 UTC

See you mate.

2018-02-02 02:48:14 UTC

anyone in voice channels

2018-02-02 11:58:30 UTC

hello bruddas

2018-02-02 11:58:45 UTC

burzhui

2018-02-02 11:59:08 UTC

Bonjour

2018-02-02 11:59:25 UTC

bruddas or comrades?

2018-02-02 11:59:28 UTC

idk whatever

2018-02-02 11:59:35 UTC

МАТЬ ЕБАЛ

2018-02-02 12:00:29 UTC

thats a mountian in asia

2018-02-02 21:16:20 UTC

Fascism has never collapsed on itself like communism did to many countries

2018-02-02 21:16:41 UTC

And has not ruined any countries

2018-02-02 21:54:48 UTC

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/308995540782284817/409104394886578188/leftist37.jpg

2018-02-02 22:31:13 UTC

(((Pinochet)))

2018-02-02 22:31:38 UTC

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/308995540782284817/409113663115493376/image.jpg

2018-02-02 22:33:00 UTC

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/308995540782284817/409114008738725888/leftist7.jpg

2018-02-02 23:26:34 UTC

oy vey goyim

2018-02-03 00:01:58 UTC

I mean the privileged relationship between Italy and Russia goes back to Mussolini and Stalins mutual respect

2018-02-03 00:02:55 UTC

Italy only got dragged into the war because of an autistic Austrian apart from that they both saw the capitalist west as more of a threat than eachother

2018-02-03 00:04:47 UTC

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/308995540782284817/409137107500793866/anticommie32.jpg

2018-02-03 00:05:24 UTC

Then weirdly enough Himmler once praised Stalin and the Soviets over the Italians as the Italians weren't "revolutionary like the fuhrer"

2018-02-03 00:06:10 UTC

He killed gorillions of his own people goy

2018-02-03 00:06:22 UTC

yes,stalin did that

2018-02-03 00:07:44 UTC

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/308995540782284817/409137847325425666/anticommie30.jpg

2018-02-03 00:09:28 UTC

Lol

2018-02-03 00:12:17 UTC

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/308995540782284817/409138993033248771/Screenshot_2018-02-02-19-12-06.png

2018-02-03 00:12:51 UTC

2 to 60 million wtf

2018-02-03 00:22:42 UTC

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/308995540782284817/409141614842478614/image-6.jpg

2018-02-03 01:47:23 UTC

@Krieg#0336 It's like the holocaust numbers now!

2018-02-03 03:44:50 UTC

@Biermann#5625 hilarious and original meme

2018-02-03 04:35:30 UTC

very original @Biermann#5625

2018-02-03 04:55:20 UTC

@Krieg#0336 Population of Russia 120 million. 60 million killed. Population became 140 million. This is American mathematics mate.

2018-02-03 04:55:48 UTC

I agree

2018-02-03 04:56:11 UTC

even as an anarchist, I still think that the death toll under stalin is ridiculously exagerated

2018-02-03 04:56:53 UTC

its more like 25 mil if you count from both famines AND from ww2, and even that is pretty exaggerated.

2018-02-03 04:57:16 UTC

but population growth and population in general would've boomed under this period due to Stalins high amount of industrialization

2018-02-03 04:57:29 UTC

for instance, before stalin life expectancy was around ~37 or so

2018-02-03 04:57:42 UTC

it became like 60 something by the end of the reign

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