I can just feel the iq of lemon eminating out of my screen

top cat shush

Sorry

This was from another chat

well you do have a point there quis

howdy top cat I am new here I am a old man but babbie leftist coming here to learn from others

however that wouldn't really happen

supply and demand would take care of that

Dr. Richard D. Wolff has talked about it a number of times. His "Economic Update" videos and podcasts are very good.

the crisis of capitalism i do not believe is really a crisis

yeah I listen to them weekly

I love his stuff very easy to access and in plain language

doesn't scare normal folks away by draping himself in the hammer and sickle

Yeah, he's also quite witty and engaging.

there has been isolated incidents of course of capitalism failing like so, but overall supply and demand, competition and the invisible hand of the free market keeps itself stable

Lenin is also one of his influences, which is dope.

>invisible hand

Lol

yeah what about it

I think capitalism will lead us to ruin if relentless pursuit if profit is put before all else I am afraid we are going to end up the the easter islanders chopping down the last tree

no

*like the

government intervention in capitalism will lead to our downfall

every excuse they get, they ram more government power

the billionaire class loves it

The poor always pay if they tax the rich

what happened to us blaming the billionaires? it's partly their fault for our mess

what does capitalism do to the poor who need things like antibiotics but it is not profitable to help them?

if you're poor and work hard, the idea is that you'll get to live a healthy life

however, this is not the case in the modern world

Capitalism invented charity

because of corporatist, corrupt scumbag politicians

the fascists of the modern day

The best form of free healthcare

>not real capitalism its corporatism

all I am saying if profit is the only motivation it will leave many lacking basic necessities because the labor they can sell is not worth enough to buy the goods and services they need

promising bailouts to the banks

Do you even know what corporatism is you dumbass

Look it up

tell me what corporatism is

@top cat Capitalism didn't invent charity nor is healthcare free.

please dont copy and paste

Charity is a capitalist concept

It's a method of organization, mostly associated with fascism

yes

and

what is it

@top cat No, it's definitely not. Are you that ignorant of history? Jesus, lol..

I think private charity doesn't do nearly enough to fix major issues if it was the way to fix social issues we wouldn't have a famine in yemen or south sudan

Charity is voluntary so there has to be a chance to volunteer to give to the poor if you are forced it isn’t charity

why are we talking about yemen and south sudan now

Charity existed long before capitalism, lol. What an absurd thing to say.

top cat stop this

stop this now

Organizing industries/fields of work into corporate groups which act for economic policy

Capitalism was never invented it always existed lol

because I think if private charity was the key to fixing these problems they would already be solved, I think the state has to step men because the private sector fails to take care of these people

@top cat Tell that to the feudal lords.

Feudalism isn’t capitalism you are clearly uneducated

corporatism is the association and cooperation between private enterprise and the state

@top cat When did I ever say it was? Lmao

Not necessarily private enterprise

yeah there were slave societies and feudal societies that existed before capitalism

they both mutually benefit each other

state funds the business

and regulates the economy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism

yes thanks for linking the wikipedia page

It's a method of organization, not the government working with private businesses

our "capitalist" system we have today has more n common with a fascist system

Our system today is capitalist

Why are you putting quotes

because it has corporatist elements

And no, corporatism isn't inherently fascist

No it doesn't lmao

explain then

how does it not

Read the page then you fucking moron

In America it is capitalist with socialist programs

No it doesn't have socialist programs

That's stupid

Why are you so uneducated about these things

Social security lol

Social security isn't socialist

"Corporatism is a system where businesses are nominally in private hands, but are in fact controlled by the government."

I think we should be nicer to each other we can disagree but lets avoid name calling

Welfare economic policy predicated upon Keynesian ideas is not socialist.

@Brickiest Brick Where did you get that definition from

http://www.thedailybell.com/editorials/ron-paul-socialism-vs-corporatism/

Wait so you just criticized me for linking wikipedia

Also welfare programs

then you link a fucking biased news article

i didnt

Lets just blame israel then we can have an orgy after

That isn't a legitimate source for a definition

fucking hell are you this dense

People always use the term corporatism as a buzzword to say "not real capitalism"

in the wikipedia article it SAYS THE DEFINITION

Yeah it does

in the fucking opening

you said it yourself

you're not understanding what it says

You're the one that's misunderstanding

yes it organizes society into corporate sects

how????

government you idiot

jesus

Yeah and when it says corporate, that doesn't mean corporate business, as it says

agriculture, labor, military, science, ect.

It says "(as well as syndicates, or guilds)"

i have a great debate with lemon and then i have you

im just gonna leave now

Okay go ahead

because you lost

have the last laugh, please

thanks

I like how you're lowkey trying to play it off like I don't understand what I'm talking about to cover up for you being a dumbass

keep telling yourself that

It literally says organization by corporate groups/syndicates/guilds

Not government

keep

telling

yourself

Not an argument

that

Actually Olev you lost

I lost how

You don’t get it

How do I not get it

jesus christ one second this server is a meme, the next it's being flooded with senseless retards

yo lemon thanks for that link to that website found an audiobook of state and revolution with a magnet link I have a seed box I use so I can upload some from there

im in this for the memes

You have no argument so you resert to calling me a retard

and look who's talking then

literally "no u"

see insults arent arguments

how do you like it

see this is called "ad hominem"

@quiscalus No problem! It's an awesome work and I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

Stop trying to be condescending

im not trying to be

you're setting yourself up for it

I thought you said you were going to leave

because I'm too stupid to talk to

Sup

i was, but then i got amused

Amused by what

is there a leftist audio book torrent you know of I would love to put it on my seed box I get crazy good speeds on there

lmao

amused by you what the fuck else

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism

how dense are you

Read the page

come back when you read it

I’m amused by grass

i did

No you didn't

you dont understand what it says

dense

You read the first sentence

d e n s e

What do I not understand

You literally linked a ron paul article definition of corporatism

20gbps burst speed and 1gbps sustained speed and 4.5tb of monthly traffic

I read it #hat are we disputing

well ron paul is a great economist

you cant dispute that

That's off-topic

@top cat He claimed corporatism is governments working with private enterprise, like corporate welfare and shit

@quiscalus I don't know of any audiobook torrents, only pdf's. Sorry.

I said he's wrong and linked the wikipedia page from which I got my definition from

"Corporatism, also known as corporativism,[1] is the sociopolitical organization of a society by major interest groups, known as corporate groups (as well as syndicates, or guilds) such as agricultural, business, ethnic, labour, military, patronage, or scientific affiliations, on the basis of their common interests."

I am just a totally lazy sucker that blows through audiobooks but is super slow getting through ebooks and phsyical books

This is different from corporatism, which is the organisation of society into groups with common interests.

from wikipedia^

You could always rip the audio from a YouTube video.

organization of s o c i e t y

by whom?

a government

Okay holy shit

yeah that is a good idea I am a member of a private tracker for books so I might upload some there

Nice.

I am not sure what place is best to share this info

Nowhere does it say that these are private enterprises

because they are no longer private

Corporatism is just splitting society into groups

Ethnic or class

Or sector

It isn't necessarily private enterprise

Reddit is always good. I've found tons of pdf's on there.

i think corporatocracy would fit the definition im trying to put forward here better

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatocracy

Yeah, no shit

That's not the same as corporatism

they've come to mean the same thing

There are actual self-proclaimed corporatists

Yeah because retards like you misuse the definition

Maybe you mean corporate wealfare

But since you're so smug you're not going to admit defeat

wait a minute

i found this on the corporatism page

"Corporatism may also refer to economic tripartism involving negotiations between business, labour, and state interest groups to establish economic policy."

"business, labour, and state interest groups"

Yeah, negotiations

yes

This has nothing to do with muh corporate welfare

i dont think i ever brought up welfare

Mussolini was a corporatist

corporate welfare is not corporatism

why did you think i meant that

So was Stalin

Stalin was not a corporatist

Yes he was

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Fascism#Corporatist_economics

the type of corporatism im talking about is government working with big business

```Italian Fascism promotes a corporatist economic system.[4] The economy involves employer and employee syndicates being linked together in corporative associations to collectively represent the nation's economic producers and work alongside the state to set national economic policy.[4] Mussolini declared such economics as a "Third Alternative" to capitalism and Marxism that Italian Fascism regarded as "obsolete doctrines".[citation needed] It supports criminalization of strikes by employees and lockouts by employers as illegal acts it deems these acts as prejudicial to the national community as a whole.[115] Similar to the Bolsheviks in Soviet Russia, Mussolini nationalized all independent trade unions into one government-operated syndicate, mandating union members for every worker.```

government gains more power

big business buys out government

Lobbyism

boom

lobbyism is a form of corporatism

That isn't corporatism

No it isn't

you're so fucking stupid

in this day it is

No, as I said

It's because total fucking idiots misuse the term

let me explain a bit please

No

as i said

Bro seriously stop calling out stupid and names it just degraded the debate

Go read

what corporatism is

come back when you're a little bit less stupid

jesus christ allow me to type

government gets more powerful

business buys out government

simple

FUCK anime

Olev I read it and Stalin was definitely a corptist

Yeah that's not what corporatism is

was that hard to understand

omg

business, labour, and state interest groups

dude it is

@happy st pattys day same

@top cat No, Stalin wasn't. Lmao

you're just disagreeing because of your subtle bias

I've had this debate before