Short conversation i had in another server

What a buncha bullshit lmao

"The sigil itself carries its meaning through the collective imagery of a population without the user magnifying the intention"

That's not a sigil, that's an archetype. It's literally the definition of an archetype. A concept that exists in the collective unconsciousness of a certain culture or society

all of this being in effect quite complicated and opaque is actually why studying even secular philosophy of semiotics and ontological roots of meaning is actually very useful in the context of occultism

because a sigil is not an egregore and an egregore is not an archetype, and neither is technically a sigil

YES

although, to make use of these categories, they are necessarily blended

in practice

that is what makes the delineation difficult

Agreed, each uses the unconsciousness or subconsciousness in a certain scope. Egregore = thoughtform sustained by a populace; archetype = certain concept or idea sustained by a populace; sigil = an image that represents an intention, concept, or idea

@chonkyfire this is the easiest way I think I can explain it: sigils are like miniature programs which, when ran, are stored in your subconscious "brain computer" and are being constantly ran at low levels

the top post is a good method of simple explanation

The more you do the ritual or the more powerful your ritual is or the stronger the intent, the better that intention can get engrained into your brain (physically, through neuroplasticity) and your conscious perception (via practical and abstraction application of the imagery or meaning)

I would say that the primary distinction between an egregore and an archetype per se is that an egregore is what people say it is, whereas archetypes are essentially unchanging in nature and change only in presentation, meaning an egregore can easily jump from archetype to archetype over time

based on the needs or wants of the community of users

if they know enough to be aware that they are being influenced by and are influencing an egregore

That's pretty fair, I mean you can look at Judeo-Abrahamic faiths and see that with God. In the OT he was a righteous, furious being, and was keen on an eye for an eye and smiting motherfuckers. Then in the NT he's all laid back and thou shalt love thy neighbor and is much more peaceful and conscientious of the human condition (obviously big JC helped him there, but I digress)

The way that I look at it is that sigils are just another ritualistic element that help solidify intentions. Sigils are, in concept, very minutely different from any other ritual element save their entry method (imagery) and their manifestation (underlying concept, feelings). You can do a ritual for money and use a gold candle or you can use coins or you can use water to cleanse the poverty or you can help others or you can draw an image that represents wealth/gaining wealth/etc. They're all pieces and parts that are enhanced by each other because the more anchor points you have in your consciousness, the stronger the connection will be from your frontal consciousness to your subconsciousness. That stronger connection creates stronger or faster or longer-lasting results

I would agree with this theory

Description in the recommended book after the conversation

@chonkyfire wait until you try sex magick + sigils

waka waka big shit poppin

Looks like a sigil is, to use layman terms, an amplifier of a pre determined thought

@Kru§ol <:cursed:624041058749382666> <:bootie:622898070727950337>

That's a pretty fair assessment. The sigil is representing a concept as a whole and thoughts tend to be a lot more fleeting

Not with me negro

<:lmao:619749634230845442>

Get that tushy away

I'm only gay for @jmack and @Shane because they show me pp

I'm gonna go more through this book and post more hot takes for us to discuss

Then we can get a neat sigil round table

you should read a bit of zos speaks if you can find it, should be in the eye collection I pinned in mystery school discussion

spare was effectively the originator of the current method of sigil usage and construction

and that is the best book by/on spare, by kenneth grant

This book is also on spare, probably offers a similar perspective

that is a good book but that's more on the post chaos magic late 90s method

which is an adaptation/simplification of the spare system
still a good book on that though

Got a name or a pdf? Im fairly well read on the subject im just posting snippits for the sake of spurring discussion and learning

zos speaks

pdf is too large to post here without nitro

http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=35F5470E678752BF3D2289F408DCEB2D

this pdf/book is nearly impossible to find otherwise

can anyone sense anything off this sigil?

@eudaimonia @chonkyfire

high quality

that book is actually a gem, very valuable

just hard to come across and to buy physically it's upwards of 1,000 usd iirc

Muh wall of stuff

whatre ur sigils for? <:twinkie:619647999643222016>

<:rub:620016319944851457>

Stuff

i see

tell me ur secrets

or else

<:lmao:619749634230845442> <:grab:621391753530048572> @Mr. Skelly

@chonkyfire
Get in VC

im in occult vc

LS

I was there back in tha day

@Agwe are these medicine wheels

@lilison
No

Somebody likes their ToBL

Hecate hypersigil me sees?

Looks more Qayin not ToBL

<:yeesh:630878470225788928>

https://www.labirintoermetico.com/04Iconologia/Gettings_Dictionary_Of_Occult_Hermetic_and_Alchemical_Sigils.pdf

Nice rare book

OwO

Earth destroys water??