Is anything immoral if you just reverse it?

i think i have to agree with schedrevka

Oh, well if we're going to bring magic into the mix, then that brings up a whole other slew of questions

I don't really know in that case

No fuck you.

i would recognize the rights of a self aware ai, because i would consider it an individual

Not magic, just "hit undo on this 50 times"

It's an interesting question assuming we're talking humans, but fucking with an AI that way isn't cool still

Prince of Persia reversal = Magic

Tamp those molecules back into their original position.

Including the brain cells.

Still, even if you're talking about just "hitting undo" and a portion of time is reversed, then is it a localized effect or is it global?

Nanomachines.

I'd still say the person should have the right not to consent to any prince of persia fuckery

i think it would still be immoral because the event would have happened, it would be the same as only removing the memory of the torture

What if your undoing of causing someone harm through torture somehow stops an assassination elsewhere in the world, and undoing that lets the assassin complete their objective?

im confused

Wat?

What the fuck did I just walk into?

A philosophical discussion

about torture and reversing time

and the ramifications of such

Now what if you froze time, vaulted off of someone's shoulders, then did a sweet slam dunk before rolling back time so that you never harmed anyone by jumping on their shoulders?
Would the crime of undoing such a sweet dunk outweigh the crime of assault?

i get how torturing someone could prevent something from happening, but the doing and undoing of the torture causing something to happen makes no sense

If you reverse literally every aspect of something bad you did.

It's akin to just THINKING ABOUT having done it.

So you torture someone. That somehow prevents an assassination elsewhere in the world.

You then undo the torture. That assassination now goes through.

Kind of, except they still did feel it in those moments

Even if those moments go away

Revan, that hypothetical is garbage.

ok yeah so you did nothing

Which is worse, the torture or the assassination?

It's like in Willy Wonka when that woman randomly says "HE'LL BE MARSHMALLOW IN 5 SECONDS"

Whose call is that?

you had no hand in the assassination, you just created suffering

The amount of things Wonka could've said to that stupid woman in that moment was immense

"BITCH. -- WHY DO YOU THINK YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT MY FACTORY"

Now we're just getting into trolley problems here

Miss Scribblehatch, what I'm trying to say is that even if you reverse time to undo torture, you've only undone one terrible thing that you did. You haven't stopped other terrible things from happening, and you may inadvertently help them to happen.

But the point is that the AI did not consent to you fucking with his time stream which is not right

But that torture was done from the beginning only because of her intent to rewind the time

I think I understand how frustrated Ricky Gervais gets when Karl misses the point.

It's not just a go back in time and kill hitler argument she's making

but you didnt *cause* the other terrible thing to happen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVaOrWmrOlU

So in my hypothetical, you torture someone. That stops an assassination elsewhere.

I never said the assassination was happening simultaneously.

You reverse time, all of a sudden the assassination becomes possible again.

I'm not reversing time at all

The rewind isn't even relevent to that scenario. It's exactly the same as 'you know that if you don't torture this man someone will be assassinated'

I'm reversing their animation.

My only crime..

My hypothetical still applies if they are the assassin and your torturing them stops them from performing the assassination somehow

Would be keeping them in a spot for awhile.

so you torture someone, harming one, saving another, then you undo it, unharming one, unsaving another, it's all back to default, i don't see any new problem arising from the undoing of the torture

But we weren't really discussing torturing someone for a purpose

Just if it's ok to do harm to someone if the harm and all memory of the harm is fully undone

I hate this hero scenario injected into this. >:U

Like everyone is important.

Do you know how RARE assassinations are

kind of rare?

We picked some random joe and it turned out to be Jason Bourne or some shit

It's a hypothetical. Why does it matter how rare an event is?

Hypothetically, any event can be commonplace.

In my hypothetical I have super powers though

Actually you know what.

There is one immoral thing about reversed torture.

You've invaded their privacy.

Learned things about them you really had no business learning.

Things that will be true after you reverse what you did.

That or you just gagged their mouths and turned some screws on their fingers

unless you unlearn it when you reverse your action

Well you'll still know how early or how late in the torture it will be when they buckle.

That's valuable information taken unwillingly.

That's true I guess

i still think causing pain without consent is the key

But I think fucking with someone's perception of reality without consent is kind of messed up as well

Ah, fuck em

What've they ever done for us

NativeInterface, I don't think that's the key takeaway. People get hurt in bar brawls without giving consent.

Yeah, superpowers are no fun if we play by those rules

well it's either mutual combat or aggression

"Cracked - Why superpowers secretly SUCK and you should stop daydreaming!!"

"oh no every time you teleport to the bathroom you're furthering the tear in the fabric of reality waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh"

"Here's an article by Zoe Quinn. We have no dignity. We're Cracked."

Okay, so another hypothetical (completely unrelated, I promise)

This better not include a hero scenario.

This better include a hero scenario.

If you could choose between the following two powers, which would you choose?

1. You can alter reality within a certain radius around yourself. Once objects leave that radius, everything returns to normal as though nothing happened. You cannot read minds with this power.
2. You can transform yourself physically as you wish, but you cannot alter anything else. People still know who you are and keep their initial impressions of you.

Additionally, would your decision change if you had the ability to share your power with one other person?

I wish to turn myself into a string that can extend to any length and cannot be broken.

And do surgery on literally everything including people's brains.

1 is probably more useful. 2 is mostly useful just for fun and transportation

That's how I get around the disadvantages of #2.

Miss Scribblehatch, people still know that the string is you

Then I do more brain surgery