No, nationalism came out of imperialism. the first empires in Europe, like the German empire, for example. Liberalism came out of pacifism which came from "internationalism" and communism

Ahhh, yes. Communism in turn coming from the Paris Commune and Karl Marx. It's a very insidious history indeed

I love it, always have. On Nationalism, I am a master, after countless years of study. Sparta was nationalist. Each state in ancient Greece was nationalist. Hitler was "NATIONALSOZIALIST" meaning national-socialist. Even the dictionaries have been changed after WWII to equate nationalism with national-socialism. We have been lied to ever since, as far as history goes. So much about WWII doesn't sit well with me. And the current state of affairs confirms that the alliances that formed after the war were all shit.

The west must do now, what it should have done in 1945. Do you understand what I am saying?

Ever heard of the Frankfurt school of Critical Theory?

America hasn't been the same since.

Absolutely.

I grew up in Germany. I got fed a lot of lies, however they never sat well with me.

Mind if I ask, since you grew up in Germany, what are your opinions on The Kaiser?

we had a lot of kaisers. wilhelm, karl, which one?

I guess I mean the Empire in general.

The Monarchy if you will

Nationalism came from the creation of the nation states we see today

hahaha, well, people created unbelievable architecture, art, music, poetry, etc. all these would not have existed without the aristocrats. they paid for it. people truly lived good lives then. it is reflected in all their literature. pick up some GOETHE, and read it in English, and you will see. Or listen to Wagner. Who today can create anything close to that?

I must say you're right. The arts and culture of the old Monarchies are unrivaled.

it's important for the americans to know difference between american nationalism and european nationalism, in america you are nationalist for all the different european peoples that make it up, but in europe we're more towards for example im swedish so i am a swedish nationalist.

https://miami.cbslocal.com/2018/11/09/judge-rules-in-gov-scotts-favor-in-broward-elections-records-request/

Good for Rick Scott to fight back!

In America we are Nationalists for the same reason that a Swede is a Nationalist in Sweden. American is a Nationality, and nationalists are proud of their nationality. I was born in Greece, but I am an American Nationalist, not a Greek one!

You totally got that one wrong, alt. Maybe it was a typo? Americans are proud to be Amarican Nationalists, not the many different nationalities in the USA.

That is why american nationalists are different from european nationalists. Amercan nationalism is about ideas and culture, while european nationalism is strictly down ethnic/racial lines. For example a black person cannot be or become a member of the swedish nation, sure they can be a citizen, but they will never be a part of the swedish people/nation.

It's why many european nationalists laugh at the conservative idea about "family values don't stop at the rio grande", because european nationalism is not about shared values or ideals.

Without the Swedish people there is no Sweden, however the common way to think in America is "as long as there is the constitution and the shared values of the people who live in america, there is america".

This @alt is the entire reason this nation was founded. This is why the founding fathers fled the monarchies of Europe. Keep your ethnic nationality if you must. We believe in the right of all people to be free, pursue happiness and live their lives accordingly.

The founding fathers thought only white people could become american as evident by the naturalization acts from 1790 until 1870.

You are wrong on that point alt.

It's true.

Some of the founding fathers were not white themselves

"The original United States Naturalization Law of March 26, 1790 (1 Stat. 103) provided the first rules to be followed by the United States in the granting of national citizenship. This law limited naturalization to immigrants who were free White persons of good character. It thus excluded American Indians, indentured servants, slaves, free blacks and later Asians"

The law was on the book until 1870.

People really need to stop drawing colored lines in the sand

The first rules alt not the followed rules

It's true that many people of color were slaves, I won't argue that point but it did not make them less American.

In the eyes of Americans at the time they were not american.

You can go an find a million laws on the books not being followed today put there a 100 years ago alt.

which is why the law says they couldnät become american

The free white persons was repealed following the civil war, and the expansion to all races was from the judiciary.

The push for freedom was long before the Civil war but ok

A little dive into a true history book would help you tremendously

Starting with Clements book "The real History of America"

It doesn't really change the fact that america was founded as a white nation for white europeans. Like america was over 90% white until the 1960s when they changed the immigration laws to promote non white immigration. America as a melting pot historically only applies to america being a melting pot for europeans.

Even abraham lincoln wanted to ship the black slaves back to africa, to liberia. Before the civil war these people were not considered americans.