Companies are preditory without state protections all the time

Pursuit of happiness is not it @Elijah

It's property

"Persuit of happiness" is very vague and varying as well

What is "happiness" for one is not another

@Fitzydog Idk if property really exists without government.

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Think of it this way.

Property has to be recognized and enforced

Say you live in a cave.

Somebody else decides to live in that same cave.

Say I live in a house, with modern firearms, and a fence

What makes it your cave?

Your stick!

Person A says " i own this 10ft by 10ft square of land."

Person B says. "No I do."

Who is right?

The one who can protect it

So lawlessness fights

@Elijah I see where you're going, and I might agree with you actually. I've been down this path of thinking a few months back

I mean back in the day that's how it worked

Not really.

yeah there are some things government is needed for. For example: to protect libertarian rights and enforce NAP

A government can be me, myself, and I

As far back as civilization governments recognized landowners

Your rights only exist in a *society*, not necessarily a state though @Elijah

There needs to be a third party to resolve disputes

Obviously, it is YOUR cave, but it was stolen by force

Again

What made it your cave?

But without a group with monopoly of power it matters not who recognizes your ownership

You protected it

^^^

So you have to be there 24/7

Not necessarily

If you leave anyone can come and take it and claim it

but that goes down a line of contracts and such

Life, liberty and pursuit of happiness exist without government.

Contracts have to have a bigger force enforcing them

Ie a state

Property, I am not sure.

No, they can be maintained by trustworthiness

Otherwise the new person can easily say your lying.