Message from @Dasick
Discord ID: 603987220050870273
Hue. Where can I read the account of what happened?
Well, I would say it is the council itself, but there is a kind of quality seal by the final affirmation of the Pope. I don't think there is much difference in comparison to what you hold
isnt everyone acting in unity, as per the scripture, also a quality seal?
the council were universal, including everyone from everywhere
The mark that something is legit and not, for example, a false council as there have been
Universal means that it defines universal doctrine, rather than literally people form everywhere attending
Because if that were the case, we would require every single bishop to agree with something, and to have bishops from all parts of the world, which I doubt was the case
but it was representation from as many different places as possible
especially the bigger and more prominent sees
Yes, because after all it is a matter that doesn't concern a specific area
yes
so why were the orthos not there when the bope decided to make adjustments to the creed 🤔
Because it was probably considered something small, natural and implied, that doesn't require an entire council. Still, I'm pretty sure it was commented in councils
adjusting the creed is not small
"clarifications" that change the wording have always been done as part of a council
In a way, but we hold that the figure that confirms a council has the authority to confirm that change, which would be something already implicit in the Creed
the Pope acted without the unity of the Church
Peter himself can be wrong and require Paul to rebuke him
The Bope gives unity to the Church. It seems there is a lot of unity, since all were forced to accept the truth of it
Peter himself, however, also had the final word. We just say that not literally everything that is held at any moment by the pope is protected by the Holy Spirit
can i get a list of instances where Peter got the final word?
Well, regarding the things Jesus said, we can refer to the many instances where he is set as a prominenet figure
Lmao no, I don't have a handy list at hand, so feel free to research his treatment by others
🤔
and why is the Roman Bishop the successor of Peter? why not the Bishop of Antioch?
Because of the role of Rome, in his history and Paul's. It is undeniable that it was the bishop of Rome afterwards that was considered to hold a special position
>undeniable
Yes, that is completely undeniable, the special role of both the bishop of Rome, and Rome
suppose i want to deny it
what would you say to that
That the early Church historians mention hte privileges of the bishop of Rome, not the bishop of Antioch
And that precisely cities that rise in glory in one way or another are refered to as "new Rome", not "new Antioch"
which Church historians. can I get some names and quotes
Yes, 1 minute
what about the church fathers which regard another bishop as the successor of peter?
For example, by Sochrates Scholastus, in his Church history:
"There each laid his case before Julius, bishop of Rome. He on his part, by virtue of the Church of Rome's peculiar privilege, sent them back again into the East, fortifying them with commendatory letters; and at the same time restored to each his own place, and sharply rebuked those by whom they had been deposed"
And Sozomen also says:
" He replied at the same time to the letter of the bishops who were convened at Antioch, for just then he happened to have received their epistle, and accused them of having clandestinely introduced innovations contrary to the dogmas of the Nicene council, and of having violated the laws of the Church, by neglecting to invite him to join their Synod; for he alleged that there is a sacerdotal canon which declares that whatever is enacted contrary to the judgment of the bishop of Rome is null"
Overall, I think there is a very good case that Rome had a special place
don't get too sectarian