Another camp of neopagans is basically just anti-Christian environmentalists who seek spirituality in nature. That would be the druid or wicca side.

Still degenerate though

In their case, they have the aesthetic draw towards the beauty and wonder of nature. However, where we know the beauty of nature speaks to the truth of God, they blind themselves to that truth and make an idol of nature itself

On the other hand my friend says that christians are misguided and seek for a strong autority to guide them and they are in fear with the thought that nothing comes after death.
And that they also are afraid to take responsability for their actions so they talk about god's will.

So there is a way to see everybody as crazy.

@Зигφρид Christianity has better exponents and proponents; do the various neopaganisms?

If Christians fear what happens when you die, why would they invent hell?

It's not comforting

These lines are beautiful:
> Deyr fé, deyja frændr,
> deyr sjalfr it sama,
> ek veit einn, at aldrei deyr:
> dómr um dauðan hvern.
But one's fame will not in fact last for ever unless there be a faithful God who keeps this everlasting memory

Someone who truly knows you and loves you, and whose covenant-love is stronger than death and enough to reverse death itself – not just the physical stroke of death, but every aspect of death from the Fall of Man

@SirLoin97 to make people act in a way that suits heavens. That is how slaves are made - follow the rules or you will be punished.

Someone who brings you *through death* to a bodily resurrection, an incorruptible body

@Kike of Kaifeng I don't know

@Зигφρид it's okay to not know whether it's true, but it's worth thinking about

The claims of Christ are bigger than people imagine, and only a true God could make good on them

@Kike of Kaifeng I do
I guess I also need to believe the impossible

@Зигφρид yes, St Paul says in Romans,
> Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, (as it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be. And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb: he staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; and being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

M8, I'm sorry, I just don't want

@Зигφρид so is your objection that you don't desire it or that it's impossible?

They're not mutually exclusive logically

But

If one of them is your main objection, the other objection will be virtually irrelevant except as an excuse

Which objection matters to you more?

Impossible of course, they are supernatural
Also people related to religion are known for burning people and scientists, witch hunts, pedophilia etc, etc.

I don't want to believe something with such background

No matter how good religion is on paper - communism is also fine on paper, but I prefer looking up for the reality

Damn those reactions made me laugh

Supernatural doesn't mean not real

It does

In english no

Hm

There's tons of stuff that's outside empirical science's epistemology

Then should I say unrealistic

"Science" is just what can be observed in a lab again and again or proven mathematically

Well physics isn't fully proven matematically and it observes things found usually very far from labs and it has supernatural theories

And words physics and philosophy long time ago were synonyms

Sooo it's not as pathetic as you could think

Sure, but my point is that there are limits to what can be known scientifically

Well we somehow came to understand how bats are orientating
In my opinion we should be fine with understanding things in future if we put our minds to it

And also infrared vision? How's that for you

Think of some abstract idea. Love works, but it might seem cringey