so there is no fear of ignorance

But are your deeds not judged by a moral system you may not have been privy to, @Avald ?

pretty sure that being a murderer makes you universally reviled across all cultures

I mean what constitutes murder certainly varies

nor are cheaters or thieves liked anywhere

nor is being envious considered a positive character trait anywhere

I would argue it can't be strictly judgement by works because every human has sinned so no one's works would be sufficient

Kind of the whole point of Jesus' death

the thing is, ignorance does count for something, but once you know of jesus and his sacrifice, then you are considered liable for ignoring the message

afaik, you need to be a good person

Bible's a lot more restrictive than "dont murder"

i am going by the 10 commandments

i consider the rest of what the jews had to follow something that the jews had to follow

as the new testament points towards 9 of the 10 commandments, by saying love god above all and love your neighbor like yourself

Well according to Jews, everyone else only has to follow Noahide law

according to the apostles, following those hundreds of other laws is not necessary, am i now going to go and point that towards someone ignorant about the whole thing and tell him he is guilty?

Christianity would directly contradict that obviously, at least for those aware of Jesus

"10 commandments"
>Keeping the Sabbath
>Idolatry
>Coveting

the thing is, you don't know about god, so how can you be expected to love someone you know nothing about?

Hell, adultery is already one that is context sensitive and highly debated

its like expecting someone from the classical age to know about the composition of salt

can you elaborate on the concept of a rest day being moral? i do like how sunday shopping is restricted here in germany, whereas in canada, no shop closes

personally i think all countries should have a rest day, would help keep things less tense so much, but how is it moral?

http://www.the-ten-commandments.org/isthesabbathaceremoniallawormorallaw.html this basically points towards it being moral because loving god with all your heart is moral and the sabbath being part of it... but then, why sunday?

🤣 , all the next results on duckduckgo are all about how sabbath is ceremonial

Why Sunday indeed
It's supposed to be Saturday :^)

first day of the week is sunday....

Fountain pens are homo change my mind

@Legalize the problem is that you're asking me to provide a concrete definition for what is just, and what is moral. Both are subjective to the individual.

All I can say is, this situation sounds unjust, and if you believe going to hell with 0 chance of redemption is just, we frankly will never agree.

Right, and throwing people in the Gulags isn't immoral too.

🍿

1: I never made a moral claim. I made a claim about justice, and my first post starting this was that Joshua CONTRADICTS the morality of the NT.

God's own morals are contradictory depending on where in the Bible you're reading. So on an objective level, you can make the claim that God's own morals are subjective.

3: I'm not the one claiming my morals are absolute. You are.

Unless you want to make the argument that according to the modern Christian standard, genocide is totally cool, so long as it's sinners.

Except you haven't answered my initial question that started this thing. You're whole argument this entire time has been "no you."

I ask "hey, isn't God contradicting his own morals?"

You reply with "well how do you know what's moral of God doesn't tell you so?"

And when I say unjust, I'm using the modern western understanding of what constitutes justice.

So let's go by that standard. You are a teenager with no understanding of your states roadkill laws, so you take a deer you hit with your car home with you.

When the cops (God) finds out. You're thrown in torture prison for life.

Yeah but I can point out the hypocrisy and still have a valid point.

When did I say "no you?"

???

That wasn't me making an argument

That was an observation.

That you're argument this entire time has been making me justify your position.

Okay let's go by objective standards. God's own moral standards contradict each other depending on where in the Bible you're reading.