Messsage from shinjitsu in Nick Fuentes Server #catholic-poasting-no-cultural-christians-allowed


shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:31:02  

unless the person's actions don't matter

SGL 2018-01-16 17:31:09  

If that's true why do people feel regret/sadness for killing others?

SGL 2018-01-16 17:31:14  

You misunderstand

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:31:16  

These are non-arguments

SGL 2018-01-16 17:32:01  

Im saying that, since God is all-knowing, those predestined to go to heaven will be those who would act in accordance to His will regardless of whether they go to Heaven or Hell

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:32:20  

You can't say that and still have free will

SGL 2018-01-16 17:32:24  

I.e. they have freedom, but choose to use said freedom to follow His doctrines

SGL 2018-01-16 17:32:29  

Of course you can

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:32:40  

because it is determined *prior to their actions* whether or not they go to heaven

SGL 2018-01-16 17:32:59  

As I said - the idea is that God is omniscient

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:33:13  

This is just logically false

SGL 2018-01-16 17:33:16  

He knows what their actions will be prior to them carrying them out

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:33:20  

you can not give free will while remaining omniscient

SGL 2018-01-16 17:33:41  

Of course you can. The idea isn't that God is forcing people to act a certain way

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:33:49  

Because if it is known what you will do, then it is predetermined what you will do, and you have no agency

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:33:59  

no you are just flat out wrong here there isn't even an argument to make.

SGL 2018-01-16 17:34:06  

The idea is that God knows how people will act anyway

SGL 2018-01-16 17:34:25  

You are still the agent carrying out said actions

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:34:28  

No that's wrong. This is accepted by wrong by every philosopher even religious ones

SGL 2018-01-16 17:34:40  

*You* are the one making the choices, not God

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:34:57  

No it doesn't matter. If he **knows** what actions you will tkae prior to you making them. Then there is **no** way to say you could have chosen otherwise.

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:35:18  

This is not up for debate, this is widely accepted as problem by people you probably agree with

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:35:49  

In this scenario free will is an illusion

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:36:10  

It's why Calvinism (specifically predestination) is wrong and where these disagreements come from

SGL 2018-01-16 17:36:35  

Of course there is. If God is all knowing - as described in the Bible, then He will know all possible actions you could take throughout your life - I.e. there is still a level of personal input necessary. God doesn't force people to do anything - he merely observes.

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:36:44  

No wait

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:36:56  

*possible actions* is not the same as saying knowing which actions the person will take

SGL 2018-01-16 17:37:00  

Thus it's still *your* choices, but God knows what choices you make.

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:37:10  

Prior to you making them?

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:37:49  

Just yes or no prior to you making them, does God know what decision you will make? In your opinion

SGL 2018-01-16 17:39:02  

If an entity is all knowing it will know everything - possible actions as well as what actions will be taken. God knows that humans have a level of autonomy and as such their actions are of their own volition - God, however, still knows what path the individual will take.

Again, the idea is that God is omniscient, but not necessarily interventionist in the paths of individuals

SGL 2018-01-16 17:39:34  

It's akin to being able to go see all possible universes at the same time

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:39:40  

No

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:39:41  

It's not

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:39:46  

because the soul is predestined to heaven or hell

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:39:59  

Yes or no, does God know what action you will make before you make it?

SGL 2018-01-16 17:40:11  

Predestined by whom? God.

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:40:15  

Yes

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:40:25  

This is literally the central tenant of Calvinism

SGL 2018-01-16 17:40:34  

As I stated earlier - God knows what actions individuals will take, correct?

shinjitsu 2018-01-16 17:40:40  

This is what you think