Ok I was talking about the 2nd half

@❹❺/❼⓿ goes here

To stumble means to fall into lust I believe

That sounds like speculation

It's either lust or just sin.

"If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out"

So that passage could relate to lust

But I think

Stumbling in general means to sin

yeah

Here is a brain teaser for all of you religious people.
God is omniscient meaning he knows everything that will happen from beginning to end. He knows all and creates all.

So here is the question, Since he is omniscient:
1. Why did he create Satan if he knew he was the one who would pervert not only humanity but also a third of his other angels?
2. If God made Satan knowing all of this and the part he would play with Jesus and that Jesus needed someone to kill him unjustly, Is it fair to punish Satan knowing that you made him and he would fulfill your prophecy?

My resposne to that is this: God knows the end from the beginning, it doesnt mean that our lives are one linear path, but He would know the outcome of every path we might take. He didn't create Satan to be the Devil, He created Lucifer, the light-bringer. An angel with endless potential. Lucifer decided to take a path that caused him and 1/3 of the hosts of Heaven to be cast out. Did God know that this was a possibility? Yes, but He didn't deny Lucifer the right to agency and coice, even though he knew how it could (and did) turn out.

So what your saying is that free will is not limitless potential, so much as it is a cone of what 'could' happen, and while god knows the outcome of every potential choice, the choice is still the persons to make.
Interesting take. Ive not seen that argument before.

It does eliminate the element of predestination most people struggle with with that question.

I don't believe that anyone is predestined to go to Heaven. Think of our agency as a road map, there are many roads, some lead to one destination, some lead to another. There are side roads we can take that would deviate us from the desired destination, and some roads that can bring us back. Unfortunately, we don't have the map, so we can't always see which roads are which. God knows, however. He has the map, and and if we sincerely seek His help, He can guide us to the destination, but He will never force us. He will simply provide directions and allow us to choose whether we want to follow those or not.

My problem is I cannot imagine God would want us to be victims of (Insert something) period. But some of the way people interpret things makes it sound like we are meant to be living punching bags of suffering and self righteousness. And I cannot justify a good God would intentionally want his followers to choose the path of most suffering.

And I already hear "We live in a sinful world, suffering is a part of sin, blah blah"

Thats just justification for suffering existing.

I think there is a difference between God allowing us to have afflictions and sufferings and His pushing us down that path. I also don't believe that all suffering is the result of sin. There are many types of sufferings that are independent of whether or not a person has sinned

It is important to remember that often it is through resistance that a person becomes stronger (weightlifting, for example). Life is not supposed to be easy all the time, and I believe that a big part of our lives on the Earth is to gain experience that will help us in the life to come.

But no, I also dont believe that God would send a person to Earth simply to suffer, and He offers respites and mercies according to the needs of each individual. And He has offered ways to relieve ourselves of burdens and sufferings. But I think that if we never suffered a moment in our lives, we would never truly know and appreciate the blessings and joys of life either.

"But I think that if we never suffered a moment in our lives, we would never truly know and appreciate the blessings and joys of life either." No you become a liberal valley girl who has never worked a day in her life but post videos about how hard lockdown is because they cant get sushi anymore or go to bars.

That's exactly what I was thinking. I don't think God likes seeing us suffer, but I think He knows that sometimes it can be beneficial to us, whether as a teacher to avoid repeating mistakes, to remind us to appreciate the blessings and joys in life or any number of other ways that hard times create strong men (and women).

So that's my thought. He doesn't want us to suffer any more than we ourselves want to suffer, but His perfect knowledge allows Him to accept that sometimes we will be better for having faced adversity. But it still doesn't make it any easier for Him to witness.

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I just got off my night shift, so I'll clock out of here for a little, but if you'd like, we can continue this discussion later.

Im just sick of all these christians who want to lay down in front of a train and say "Well god said we will have a life of suffering and if god loves me he will stop the train. And if he does not its gods will. And if your a christian too you will lay down on the tracks too."

Chalk it up to poor theology and the old "me and my bible under a tree" mentality. It opens up a whole slew of wacky interpretations.

@Nitrix u can post that tweet here in this subchannel.

“But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

thats another thing I hate, people who insist on using the KJV rather than a modern version.

nobody in today texts someone "Wilst thou picketh up a pound of butter? Thou art going to need some for the cheese that hast been grilt tonight."

Not dropping an opinion or anything, just wow this chat has been really blowing up with you here Mercy XD

People dont talk about god or religeon in 2020. Look what happened.

Im here to fix the first part.

If people tweeted bout church like the tweet about the masked singer- just saying.

Im like Elijah. I just showed up out of nowhere, some people dont like me, some do. But I am here to mock and shame bad logic <:CrazyAOC:720122172470722570> and I take no prisoners after I dump some cold water.

And for those who get that reference <:salut:730846445732888630>

God has purposes for all things, most purposes being things of which we don't know or understand *yet*.

If you ruin your life god will take you and if you did not ruin your life god will take you. But pretending things are gonna be fine based purely on "it all works out in the end" is unbiblical.

Not all things will end up 'working out fine', though a lot of things are connected for good or bad to happen. God will let things happen that he sees is right to happen for better things to come.

In the very end (revelation), there is a great tribulation. There is THE anti-Christ. Not just an anti-Christ, but the Anti-Christ. Is this all bad? Of course it is, but is there better to come after? For sure, and we see that.

When they were rebuilding the gates of Jerusalem people prayed God would fix the gates. It took someone from out of country to ask their king permission to do it. Then he went there and lead them. The surrounding countries were jealous and tried to spread rumors of anarchy and treason to the king about these "rebelous jews." But this time they didnt just beleieve everything would work out with god. The elders came together with a clever plan and it was thwarted. THEN the nations actively tried to sabotage the walls and attack and they had to build the walls with a sword in one hand and mortar in the other. It was a fight, it was hard, and was not good. But they didnt just "Well god has a plan and if his plan is to see this wall built it will happen, and if not its all part of gods plan."

Passivist Christians are lazy. We are called to do "SOMETHING" not nothing.

It's up to us to figure out what God's will is for us to do.