@unholybob I'm talking to haku

In truth again evolution is random that means you get good with the bad

random yes, but only the features that serve benefits pass on.

Sickle cell also drastically lowers quality of life because your hemoglobin is deficient

it's dependent on the current living conditions.

Oh now it's dependant

it's always been dependent...

what in the actual fuck

dude come on....

So essentially you have created a mental structure in which you can never be wrong. You can explain away all contrary evidence as temporary and all non temporary as a throw back to other times

evolution is only random insofar as mutations occur at a random interval... the selection for or against those mutations is not random. A mutation that kills an organism has a strong negative selection pressure. A mutation that helps an organism has a positive selection pressure.

You're strawmanning the fuck out of everything.

Go pick up an evolution book.

And a mildly negative mutation ?

mildly negative selection

My point is strong negative pressures may get worked out, weak would not

Off the top of my head, sickle cell probably survived indirectly through other benefits.

But naturally, if it does not benefit the species, it will be selected out.

Over time...

It might even be selected on because people decide it is good. But ultimately it is random

And that is my point that some shit on humans is not necessarily good, just random

Cappy, there may be a threshold value for a gene's persistence in a population... it finds a natural equilibrium. An overall negative trait will, overall, be less represented in a population as time evolves.

That I'll agree is more plausible

My bigger point is insisting that everything exists because it is beneficial and playing everything negative off is stupid

Sickle cell disease has no other positive effects

You can't catch malaria because your hemoglobin is malformed. You also have a reduced ability to carry oxygen in your blood

It only really exists as a proof that negative mutations can endure for very long terms and if the species overcomes the negative effects then it will likely never be bred put

*out

It's a continuum: on one end is total mastery of the universe where an organism become the "grey goo"... and on the other end the organism goes extinct... everything exists within that spectrum (obviously we don't currently have extinct or "grey goo" organisms alive today)

*note "grey goo" refers to a science fiction end-of-the world or universe scenario where nanobots, or some form of matter are so self-replicating and efficient at converting matter and energy in their environment into additional copies that the environment itself becomes the thing (the idea being nanobots would just be a thing that looks like grey goo).

Case in point if we developed larger blood supply

Sickle cell would never be bred out. At that point we have adapted and it exerts no more pressure and humans would be debating how amazing the immunity to malaria is

Sickle cell anemia and sickle cell trait are two different genotypes.

Admittedly this is a tangent but like you said bob it is a continuum. I've an issue with people trying to look for positives that don't exist it means they are deluding themselves and others

@unholybob i can dig deeper but I'll yield. My central point is valid

"we cannot be indifferent to our self-evaluation."

I can't think of a logical null hypothesis... only that one may forego (or attempt to forego) self-evaluation. But once a self-evaluation occurs, it can not, necessarily, be indifferent.

But, then, I should define "indifferent", perhaps.

The act of observation (however slight) perturbs a system... as any "light" shed upon a thing, necessarily, absorbs and transmits according to the laws of thermodynamics and other physical laws (such as the laws of motion, which state that for every action there is an equal and opposed reaction). The act of observation/measurement may only slightly change a thing. We may not readily perceive the change (as in the case of light being absorbed and ever-so-slightly warming an object, for instance).

So... I think the author was right: we cannot be indifferent to our self-evaluation.

I had a dream about tfm giving me drugs that would let me see my waifu

very cool