But the context is not teaching as that He loves Him in different ways. That's only a sense you think you find because you think you know there's a difference between the words.

You have too much book smarts for your own good

No, I am not. I recognize The Father Loves God phileally as well as Agape sense. Those don't prove they are synonyms.

The Bible is a book as well, so yeah.

A compilation of books.

A book of books.

You know I made a distinction before so no need to be snarky

And you imply as if being "book smart" is inherently bad in this conversation.

I find that absurd.

Especially since it's important to know the social and cultural significance of the Greco-Roman culture and how they understood those two words.

You can know books more and have too much concentration on them and your knowledge of the Bible actually deteriorates.

Like I said, being Sola Scriptura does not equate to rejecting any attempt to study the cultural background at that time.

Yes, but scholarship doesn't trump the actual Bible itself. You are acting like you are also saying "Sola Scholarship" and let's listen to them.

No, there you go strawmanning me again.

That must be your favorite rebuttal

I never implied to "only listen" to scholars. I am saying that *given what we know* from their culture and how they would have used those terms in their daily life, your conclusion that they are synonyms is incorrect and your chain of reasoning to show that it creates a theological conundrum is flawed.

I want to know more about the bible and understanding it. Looking for some reliable resources to guide me. Either books, YouTubers, audiobooks, authors

Greek culture of the time has no absolute bearing on the Bible usage itself for there are some words that occur only there. And, you cannot look to culture as definitive for something Biblical/Christian. Go on the street and ask some passerby what their definition is of love, and you will not get a Christian one, I'm sure.

It's good to be informed, but that information is not authoritative

Jason Lisle's book *Understanding Genesis*, James Patrick Holding's YouTube channel *tektontv* and Jonathan Sarfati's commentary on Genesis titled *The Genesis Account* are good starts.
For New Testament culture, David DeSilva's *Honor, Patronage, Kinsjip & Purity* is a good source as well.

@Smash Boy thank you. When I go to church or listen to a message online, I hear the same things and haven't developed a deeper understanding which I know is something I need

@mo-me119 See if you can find Wilmington's Guide to the Bible. It is an excellent resource.

@DannyNC1 thank you!

@mo-me119 J. Sidlow Baxter's Explore the Book is also very good

You're welcome

Okay, your example about the street is absolutely irrelevant. That'd be like saying ask anyone in the street what liberty means and because you get some wishy-washy answers, therefore we shouldn't pay mind to studying political philosophers' take on the definition.
And as for number of word usages is also irrelevant. There's a field called Textual Criticism and NT Studies that take care of that problem. And I never implied studying their culture means I give them the same authority as the Bible. I am saying that studying the social and cultural backgrounds helps us bring *clarity* and insight into some difficult passages and clear confusion on some strange Greek words in the NT.

Just because you didn't understand my example as fitting the context of the discussion does not give you warrant to label it absolutely irrelevant. Ask clarifying questions before stooping to dismissiveness. The example is to show that the Greek culture, whatever was studied, could in all probability have come from secular, non-Christian usage, whether the culture to explain the statement, or the word use itself. You don't know actually how much bearing that has on what you are saying, but yet you jump to dismissiveness because you think I'm somehow a combatant for you. Greek scholarship has been precisely corrupted because of this point. They about 300 years ago started inter-mingling ancient Greek culture usage of words to be used in their lexicons. This slowly leaked in until it corrupted Biblical understanding of Greek words and terms. It's basically like they were giving the Greek text to a 1st century pagan to read and define how he thought it meant. I have studied much about textual criticism and their 'science'. A lot of fallacious reasoning underlies it.

Oh my goodness that is a bunch of bare assertions and genetic fallacy snugged in. Just because a Greek historical studies were employed by secularists does not invalidate their usefulness to Biblical studies. That is poisoning the well fallacy. As for the rest involving Textual Criticism's and New Testament studies; you need to provide citation and a reliable track record. Just because some NT scholars disagree on some matters does not invalidate the entire field. That is uber absurd. Should we invalidate the study of quantum physics solely because there is still a debate over the nature of the wavefunction?

Oh my goodness you guys are still going on with this, just give it a rest.

Fallacy this...fallacy that... This is getting unbearable. I don't have to go educate you on the fallacious reasoning of Textual criticism. I haven't know you all that long, and do not even know you really. But yet you say I have no reliable track record. You don't know me nor what I've studied to go and make an arrogant assumption like that. You need to learn some humility, graciousness, proper brotherly love and put it in practice here.

Agape is not often used by greeks right ?

I never said you *don't have* a reliable record. Stop misrepresenting me. I actually *asked citation* for it and you have not offered one.
And yes, agape is used in Greek writings, that's how NT scholars can tell their meaning. They study classical writings and compare and contrast from other sources.

And you have a biblical obligation to study a course in logic.

Alright guys stop attacking each other

Listen, I don't accept homework assignments from people I don't even know

So you won't even provide one citation of how the field of Textual Criticism is "corrupt" and "fallacious"?

Nor substantiate your claims?

I'm not obligated to do so when you have not patiently, charitably listen to all I have been telling you. If the simple Bible study of the Bible text's usage will not get through to you there's no point continuing further with you, you just demonstrate it's a waste of time.

We are talking bout love,don't hate each

I have listened, I simply showed you that your examples do not reliably prove what you intend.

We obviously will get nowhere as we seem to have radically different approaches to biblical exegesis and the epistemic baggage with it.

Other