Message from @CrowGoCaw
Discord ID: 486249540387864586
Because of fucking course the lumberjack is entitled to woodworking plant because he cut down the trees for them to use
Self-employed people already own their MOP. Why would a lumberjack own a factory? The people in the factory own the factory collectively.
Capitalism and socialism are byproducts of industrialization.
im talking about marxist ideology's idea of workers being entitled to their labor
Yeah, a lumberjack owns their labor. They cut down a tree and self it for themselves.
They aren't entitled to a factory's labor. The factoryworker in the factory is entitled to that labor.
No he owns the woodworking plant too as created the resources for them to use
It's his labor first and foremost
No, when he sells it to the factory for refinement as a raw resource it's no longer his.
There was an exchange where he gave up the entirety of his labor without a capitalist as a medium.
Although Bordiga will tell you that's not real socialism because there's capital involved.
Marxism breaks down as even remotely logical past the state socialism stage.
>no state
thats a joke
It's what Marx wanted.
Correct
he wanted society to organize on confederate lines as communes, which is the root of communism.
Which is clearly an issue while imperalism and other states exist
Which is why socialism in one country is anti-Marxist.
Bukharin and Trotsky were true communists.
The Comintern was just an exercise of Soviet influence.
There's quite a serious reason why Ukraine and Catalonia failed compared to the USSR
it does matter when studying socialism tho to understand what you're talking about
you can't just say "it sucks"
Socialism is fine when it's not rooted in egalitarianism, marxism or complete redistribution of wealth
"both suck" isn't very informative
egalitarianism is the only part of socialism with any merit
>egalitarianism
Egalitarianism is slave morality.
Yes lets ignore all of biology and merit because retards deserve the same vote as 200 IQ mega geniuses
If you can't accept some people are better than others in every way then you deny reality
you can't be better than someone ontologically
and what's wrong with a little slave morality
Because it is resentiment of what makes humans strong and progress, rather than morality based on reality.
When you are by all means more qualified to speak on an issue you deserve the authority to overtake the opinion of someone with zero merit in the subject
sure
That is anti-egalitarian
They have been treated differently
They now have a right or opportunity above the pleb with no knowledge or authority
thats a good thing