Message from @Mr. Nessel

Discord ID: 702247215212789780


2020-04-21 19:54:03 UTC  

I don't think the major issue was pricing

2020-04-21 19:54:20 UTC  

What they also did is just lower prices without keeping up production

2020-04-21 19:54:41 UTC  

So someone on paper could afford all the food they want but in practice it was first come first served

2020-04-21 19:55:36 UTC  

Slack labour is another point people like to make but it really exists under any system
"I pretend to work so they pretend to pay" is something you see even today

2020-04-21 19:56:18 UTC  

Yes but companies that do that too much tend to go bankrupt.

2020-04-21 19:56:37 UTC  

Not necessarily

2020-04-21 19:56:42 UTC  

Small buisnesses do

2020-04-21 19:56:43 UTC  

There were a tons of problems with it. Bad incentives, bad information for the planners, lack of know-how, but most of that could be solved in theory. That without price signals for them, you cannot allocate non-specific higher-order capital goods rationally, that would break the back of socialism.

2020-04-21 19:56:52 UTC  

There is a lot of dead weight in large corporations

2020-04-21 19:57:24 UTC  

In my company, we all slacked. We were also all fired eventually, so make of that what you will 🤷‍♂️

2020-04-21 19:57:42 UTC  

huh
i did exactly the same

2020-04-21 19:57:54 UTC  

Yes there is, they suffer from a lot of the same problems like governments do.

2020-04-21 19:57:58 UTC  

I don't think the issue with their plans was prices
They were simply rewarding the least effective parts of their economy to become more developed

2020-04-21 19:58:00 UTC  

why does this keep happening to me
fired for no good reason

2020-04-21 19:58:11 UTC  

Not prices per se

2020-04-21 19:58:16 UTC  

Prices for capital goods

2020-04-21 19:59:01 UTC  

Idk. Afaik when corn output looked bad someone like Krushchev just focused attention and resources exclusively there

2020-04-21 19:59:09 UTC  

Which leads to negative consequences

2020-04-21 19:59:18 UTC  

Like virgin land not actually being that good

2020-04-21 19:59:33 UTC  

Or other parts of the economy being left behind

2020-04-21 19:59:43 UTC  

Also big issue was the focus on heavy industry

2020-04-21 20:00:46 UTC  

Not to mention when they industrialized the country by forcing rural people into cities and selling corn and whatnot abroad causing a famine

2020-04-21 20:00:54 UTC  

Just so they could buy tractors

2020-04-21 20:03:31 UTC  

I'd really advise you to look up the calculation-problem, if you find the time. *A Socialist Empire: The Incas of Peru* is a really good demonstration of it. The Peruvians were more socialistic than about any other society that ever existed, and it functioned. However, it did so because their economy was extremely primitive. All their tools were multi-purpose and no production process took more than three or four steps, at most.

2020-04-21 20:04:02 UTC  

I'm familiar they didn't use money

2020-04-21 20:04:06 UTC  

Yep

2020-04-21 20:04:13 UTC  

I wonder if they kept track with knots though

2020-04-21 20:04:21 UTC  

I doubt them not using quasi currency

2020-04-21 20:04:27 UTC  

Like debt based one

2020-04-21 20:04:45 UTC  

I haven't heard of them doing so, except in the border regions

2020-04-21 20:04:50 UTC  

Or similiar to temple complex economies of antiquity

2020-04-21 20:04:52 UTC  

Maybe within the upper classes, too

2020-04-21 20:05:04 UTC  

Idk what other use they would have for the knots

2020-04-21 20:05:21 UTC  

Calculation and keeping statistics

2020-04-21 20:05:29 UTC  

They had a very good census system

2020-04-21 20:05:54 UTC  

Always knew which cities required how much food

2020-04-21 20:06:10 UTC  

They never suffered a famine, from what I know

2020-04-21 20:07:16 UTC  

Even though they migrated populations when they felt like it, to split up rebellious communities, for example. Yet they never fell into a Malthusian trap, which is something that tends to happen with population displacement

2020-04-21 20:07:23 UTC  

Might be because the people there didn't need to fear Stalin when reporting bad harvests

2020-04-21 20:08:04 UTC  

Yep

2020-04-21 20:08:31 UTC  

The Incas could be brutal but they really tried hard not to suffer any famine