Message from @pratel
Discord ID: 468566170212237323
Alot of these servers have very significant ideas come out of them. But I doubt most people are interested in documenting any of it.
The final straw for me was this one new guy, who came in, would use a common word everyone knows as x definition, would debate you a little while, then go "but I'm using y definition" that is basically not a definition for that word like ever.
But when you think about it, these are the thoughts by which future generations will have to consider.
lol i like looking at christian and socialist/communist arguments and finding parts that are reasonable and work
even though im on the other side of both of those views lol
Or you'd start the debate using x definition, he'd argue from y definition, then when you corrected him he would go "oh, so now you are changing the definition because you are losing?!"
Fucking strawman should have been his title.
Yeah, one issue with ideological arguments though is that we tend to define them by the extremes.
And communities will lay claim to "ideas that work" even if they themselves didn't really come up with the idea in the first place or simply renamed something someone else said.
like i dated a pretty religious chick a couple years back and the whole agnostic shit never bothered them hahaha mainly because i could articulate good reasons for a higher power from theri perspective
The fuzzy middle ground is hard to stand on.
also i was never bothered by prayers before supper n shiet n id respect them
Since I hadn't had any good debates for a while since then, and even managed to get one person to shift there position and say I was right, I was just "screw Mr strawman" and left.
@Grenade123
Yeah, definitions matter. And some people just want to rework them. There's not too much you can really do IMO. I've redefined words myself (heck, I've had days long discussions on what definitions make sense), sometimes you just have to if you want to get a point across.
LIke, I can think of atleast 3 definitions of "conservative" that all make sense and can be hard to distinguish in context (and all mean radically different things)
LOL queue the first podcast between sam harris and jordan peterson where they spend an hour defining truth lol
as much as good points were made they were speaking past each other
Oh man. Truth. That's like, a whole branch of philosophy.
I argued that the server needed a dictionary, so we could start bedates by going like "government: using def 1a)" for opening statements
Probably one of my favorites too.
YAYA bud hahah love that shit
But then you'd probably have to flood the dictionary with new entries after just 15 minutes of real conversation.
Pretty much what it was getting to
Just make a point of clarifying?
But better than spending an hour defining truth for the 5th time
Pull a Peterson. "But what do you mean when you say X?"
You sorta have to do that in real discussions.
I've had arguments with friends that lasted hours that came down to which part of a distribution we were thinking about.
Iron out the difference and we would be in complete agreement.
The challenge is knowing when you need to stop and clarify definitions.
you really do
which is why i generally end up asking like 20 questions of different far fetched scenarios to figure out peoples positions
That people don't do this more often in formal debate is one of those signs that people aren't really discussing as much as fighting.
Oh I do that anyway. Working with the abstract is fun
which can be hard when they treat those questions as attempted gotcha moments and go "but thats just too far fetched and breaks x y and z"
Abstract is the only real good way to go for some things.
Since the pragmatics can easily break on tribal boundaries.
its just like "ugh... just answer the question, its not supposed to be a gotcha damnit"
lol that feel when ppl are like "OH U JUS MAKIN SHIT UP TO MAKE U SOUND RIGHT" LIKE NO JUST PROPERLY ARTICULATE YOUR POSITIONS AND WE WOULDNT BE IN THIS MESS JANNET
I think examination of the situation is valid though
Sometimes the parameters of a question make assumptions they shouldnt