Cupthought
Discord ID: 574671606664921098
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Whatโs up
Iโm become more anti-socialist lately
Still love my coops and mutual banks tho
-role egoist
-role anarchist
Itโs also pretty anti communist
I think he knows Orwell was a syndicalist
More accurately itโs very anti-authoritarian
Capitalism is fine, itโs pretty close to market anarchism
My only issue with ancaps is I think we should have tenure land rights, not permanent land rights
But otherwise they cool
Me?
State capitalism is what we have now doug
@Vaporwave doge๐ฉ๐ดโฎ is being โkindโ a spook?
Sure, Iโm more meaning the act of being kind can be useful to my ego. In the same way, I respect the nap because it avoids conflict
Walmart is statist. It receives government help for itโs expansion
Frans right on that one, in a free market society, monopolies would collapse quickly from competition
Walmart is as well
Iโve seen this, Vaush makes some weird claims about property in this
And defends taxation for some reason
Well, Vaush is a better speaker then Kokesh. But the argument isnโt sound imo
No, Vaush is just a statist who says heโs an anarchist sometimes
No heโs not heโs for a large transitionary state and more government intervention, heโs not anarchist in the slightest
Heโs want anarchism in some distant future, while in the meantime increasing the state. Heโs just a leftcom.
He getโs โcouncil communismโ in the test
Thatโs like the the leftcom ideology. Heโs not a tankie, but heโs isnโt an anarchist
Now, I like Vaush, heโs a cool dude, but I donโt think heโs an anarchist
Sure, Iโll grant that heโs a lib soc sure
But most of his policies increase government, not decrease it
Sure, Iโm anti-Bernie. I like some of his stuff and would vote for him over Biden or trump, but Iโm not a dem soc. Iโm a market anarchist, Bernie wanted to increase minimum wage and other market restraining features
Why?
No they donโt, you can leave whatever firm your in
Proudhon the first anarchist said that he didnโt want to outlaw profit, rent, or interest at all, ancaps are completely anarchist by his definition
And liberty
He said itโs liberty
โProperty is libertyโ is an exact quote by Proudhon
He was talking about land, not all property
Land when owned permanently is theft.
He was fine with other forms of permanent property
Sure, but communism inherently steals labor
Landlord owns land illegitimately while a boss is voluntary
Socialism as a mode of distribution is theft
Itโs take the value of oneโs labor doesnโt allow individuals to do what they want with it
What?
Start your own company, join a coop, etc.
Why must you alienate your labor under capitalism
Join a a coop, start your own business
Begin a mutual bank
Find associations
Thatโs why Iโm for mutual banking and cooperative firms, they donโt alienate labor
The reason why there isnโt options is because their are artificial barriers of entry so that cooperative enterprises can be started
Vaush believes in market socialism with high regulation
Heโs a statist
So you believe in regulation?
So not anarchist
Yes, but fascism can be argued on a self interested basis
Can you describe how we need regulation on business, and how that helps my self interest
Will there not be vetting organizations which can alert shops to not sell gasoline. Why would you need a government bureaucrat to interfere here
Leaded gasoline sorry
Which is?
You can bribe bureaucrats
And with multiple inspection agencies, itโs unlikely that if there information is unlike the other inspection agencies, then they will be outed as lying
So there is economic incentive to out the producer which harms the consumer
What?
Walmart is a government paid corporation, no ancap defends Walmart
Sure, a lot of black markets are chaotic due to government interference. There is also class inequality due to state intervention. In a more egalitarian society, more people would have access to things like consumer militias and other forms of defense
Itโs not like the government is going to do a better job of not breaking up strikes, since they exist to protect the political class
Look, I donโt mean to come across as anti-vaush or anything, or even against ancoms. I think theyโll cool to an extent. But saying that council communists are more anarchist then ancaps seems woefully uncharitable @Vaporwave doge๐ฉ๐ดโฎ
Sure I guess
But yeah, no need to argue hard about it
Youโre still cool my dude
In my first memorandum, in a frontal assault upon the established order, I said things like, Property is theft! The intention was to lodge a protest, to highlight, so to speak, the inanity of our institutions. At the time, that was my sole concern. Also, in the memorandum in which I demonstrated that startling proposition using simple arithmetic, I took care to speak out against any communist conclusion. In the System of Economic Contradictions, having recalled and confirmed my initial formula, I added another quite contrary one rooted in considerations of quite another orderโa formula that could neither destroy the first proposition nor be demolished by it: Property is freedom. ... In respect of property, as of all economic factors, harm and abuse cannot be dissevered from the good, any more than debit can from asset in double-entry book-keeping. The one necessarily spawns the other. To seek to do away with the abuses of property, is to destroy the thing itself; just as the striking of a debit from an account is tantamount to striking it from the credit record.
- also Proudhon
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