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2020-03-14 15:20:17 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

what are we seeking?

2020-03-14 15:20:37 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

we know that libertarianism isn't the best

2020-03-14 15:20:40 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

that's settled already

2020-03-14 15:21:06 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

banjod has a system

2020-03-14 15:21:37 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

hierarchy forms

2020-03-14 15:21:39 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

in general

2020-03-14 15:21:49 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

whether you try to get it or not

2020-03-14 15:23:16 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

it's not meaningless

2020-03-14 15:23:25 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

but it's also not clear-cut

2020-03-14 15:23:38 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

you're going to have a hierarchy

2020-03-14 15:23:42 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

should you pretend it doesn't exist?

2020-03-14 15:23:47 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

that's what we do in liberalism

2020-03-14 15:26:53 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

there are leaders in libertarianism

2020-03-14 15:26:59 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

there are always leaders

2020-03-14 15:27:05 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

that's why communism is fake

2020-03-14 15:27:47 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

the idea in libertarianism is that following the leader is voluntary

2020-03-14 15:27:50 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

everything is voluntary

2020-03-14 15:28:05 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

and in practice, liberalism is the closest to achieving such an illusion

2020-03-14 15:28:12 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

libertarianism is fake like communism

2020-03-14 15:28:42 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

the person who makes decisions is the leader

2020-03-14 15:29:27 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

what other people do

2020-03-14 15:29:35 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

whether the other people follow voluntarily or not

2020-03-14 15:30:53 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

what's the difference?

2020-03-14 15:31:14 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

the person whom others follow and who might use force to get others to follow

2020-03-14 15:31:33 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

what is the real difference between following voluntarily and being coerced

2020-03-14 15:32:17 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

a corporate manager has people do what he says partly because they need to make money and partly because they want to do what he says for whatever reason

2020-03-14 15:32:24 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

same with national leaders

2020-03-14 15:32:29 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

i mean, not the making money part

2020-03-14 15:32:34 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

but maybe patriotism or whatever

2020-03-14 15:32:44 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

and police force

2020-03-14 15:32:49 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

taxes

2020-03-14 15:33:11 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

consent is only an emotion that you have

2020-03-14 15:33:25 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

a way you feel about a decision

2020-03-14 15:33:43 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

modern western nations are built on the idea of consent

2020-03-14 15:33:51 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

and many people have felt that they were consenting to it

2020-03-14 15:34:12 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

what if you were starving?

2020-03-14 15:34:33 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

what if all the property is owned by that guy

2020-03-14 15:34:35 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

and you have none

2020-03-14 15:34:41 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

then you have no choice but to work for him

2020-03-14 15:35:36 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

what if just by a series of accidents in a libertarian world, all the property ended up in the hands of one man

2020-03-14 15:37:38 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

i'm using an extreme example but in real life you see wealth being redistributed all the time and not always for "good" reasons

2020-03-14 15:37:53 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

not redistributed by the government

2020-03-14 15:38:00 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

but just the distribution changing

2020-03-14 15:38:10 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

through voluntary transactions

2020-03-14 15:38:23 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

i mean, even if it is for "good" reasons

2020-03-14 15:38:33 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

is it always desirable no matter what?

2020-03-14 15:39:46 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

the fact is, people in a libertarian system have power

2020-03-14 15:40:07 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

we pretty much have a libertarian system

2020-03-14 15:40:19 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

certain people, i mean

2020-03-14 15:40:23 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

have much more power than others

2020-03-14 15:40:27 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

that's not always bad

2020-03-14 15:40:32 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

but is the way we handle it now good?

2020-03-14 15:54:11 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

there beauty in the spontaneous order of capitalism

2020-03-14 15:54:15 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

but where does it go?

2020-03-14 15:54:32 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

capitalism with no one to control it

2020-03-14 15:54:35 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

where does it go?

2020-03-14 15:54:40 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

does it go to a good place?

2020-03-14 15:54:43 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

there are people controlling it

2020-03-14 15:55:13 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

the people controlling it cannot be punished

2020-03-14 15:55:21 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

because it was all voluntary

2020-03-14 15:55:25 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

you agreed to this

2020-03-14 15:56:12 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

you're not going to make a perfect system that will last forever

2020-03-14 15:56:23 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

but leaving things up to the free market does not seem to be working out

2020-03-14 15:56:31 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

"free market's never been tried"

2020-03-14 15:56:45 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

we've tried it enough

2020-03-14 15:56:57 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

capitalists have the power in our system

2020-03-14 15:57:04 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

where are they taking us?

2020-03-14 15:57:43 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

the king is someone who can be held responsible

2020-03-14 15:57:45 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

for one thing

2020-03-14 15:57:59 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

whom do we hold responsible for what is happening now?

2020-03-14 16:03:52 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

people still have power in libertarianism

2020-03-14 16:04:13 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

it's just that power in libertarianism is unanswerable

2020-03-14 16:05:51 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

kings do not have absolute power

2020-03-14 16:06:02 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

we just say they do

2020-03-14 16:07:17 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

under the current system, everyone accepts that we cannot change the course of the west, and in fact, everyone is conditioned to believe that we did this on purpose

2020-03-14 16:41:52 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

i let my indentured servants roam it

2020-03-14 16:42:36 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

and you will like it

2020-03-14 16:43:27 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

the thing is

2020-03-14 16:43:36 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

libertarianism is not a solution to the problems we have right now

2020-03-14 16:43:43 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

so stop bothering with it

2020-03-14 16:51:13 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

libertarianism is individualism

2020-03-14 16:54:06 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

jf is much better on this topic

2020-03-14 16:54:11 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

he keeps his eye on the long term

2020-03-14 16:54:31 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

yeah

2020-03-14 16:54:38 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

that's part of why he is better

2020-03-14 16:55:03 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

but he is worried about corruption and human error

2020-03-14 16:55:06 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

which is understandable

2020-03-14 16:55:10 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

the problem is

2020-03-14 16:55:15 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

is the alternative better?

2020-03-14 17:35:59 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

who is better, spanish girls or italian girls?

2020-03-14 17:39:53 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

how hispanic are you?

2020-03-15 17:15:10 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

why can't all europeans be like albanians

2020-03-15 18:33:04 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

what the fuck is going on with italy

2020-03-15 18:34:35 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

italy is already far worse than china by the official numbers

2020-03-15 18:34:45 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

like 10 times worse or more

2020-03-15 18:35:32 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

well, do you think south korea is also lying?

2020-03-15 18:36:32 UTC [JFG.world #general]  

look at this chart

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