what are we seeking?

we know that libertarianism isn't the best

that's settled already

banjod has a system

hierarchy forms

in general

whether you try to get it or not

it's not meaningless

but it's also not clear-cut

you're going to have a hierarchy

should you pretend it doesn't exist?

that's what we do in liberalism

there are leaders in libertarianism

there are always leaders

that's why communism is fake

the idea in libertarianism is that following the leader is voluntary

everything is voluntary

and in practice, liberalism is the closest to achieving such an illusion

libertarianism is fake like communism

the person who makes decisions is the leader

what other people do

whether the other people follow voluntarily or not

what's the difference?

the person whom others follow and who might use force to get others to follow

what is the real difference between following voluntarily and being coerced

a corporate manager has people do what he says partly because they need to make money and partly because they want to do what he says for whatever reason

same with national leaders

i mean, not the making money part

but maybe patriotism or whatever

and police force

taxes

consent is only an emotion that you have

a way you feel about a decision

modern western nations are built on the idea of consent

and many people have felt that they were consenting to it

what if you were starving?

what if all the property is owned by that guy

and you have none

then you have no choice but to work for him

what if just by a series of accidents in a libertarian world, all the property ended up in the hands of one man

i'm using an extreme example but in real life you see wealth being redistributed all the time and not always for "good" reasons

not redistributed by the government

but just the distribution changing

through voluntary transactions

i mean, even if it is for "good" reasons

is it always desirable no matter what?

the fact is, people in a libertarian system have power

we pretty much have a libertarian system

certain people, i mean

have much more power than others

that's not always bad

but is the way we handle it now good?

there beauty in the spontaneous order of capitalism

but where does it go?

capitalism with no one to control it

where does it go?

does it go to a good place?

there are people controlling it

the people controlling it cannot be punished

because it was all voluntary

you agreed to this

you're not going to make a perfect system that will last forever

but leaving things up to the free market does not seem to be working out

"free market's never been tried"

we've tried it enough

capitalists have the power in our system

where are they taking us?

the king is someone who can be held responsible

for one thing

whom do we hold responsible for what is happening now?

people still have power in libertarianism

it's just that power in libertarianism is unanswerable

kings do not have absolute power

we just say they do

under the current system, everyone accepts that we cannot change the course of the west, and in fact, everyone is conditioned to believe that we did this on purpose

i let my indentured servants roam it

and you will like it

the thing is

libertarianism is not a solution to the problems we have right now

so stop bothering with it

libertarianism is individualism

jf is much better on this topic

he keeps his eye on the long term

yeah

that's part of why he is better

but he is worried about corruption and human error

which is understandable

the problem is

is the alternative better?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/14/technology/coronavirus-purell-wipes-amazon-sellers.html

who is better, spanish girls or italian girls?

how hispanic are you?

why can't all europeans be like albanians

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1239237647031242752

what the fuck is going on with italy

italy is already far worse than china by the official numbers

like 10 times worse or more

well, do you think south korea is also lying?

look at this chart

https://bnonews.com/index.php/2020/02/the-latest-coronavirus-cases/