but you gotta instill that not eating is a bad thing

i wouldn't go as far as actual abuse, of course, but i think this is one of those things where you have to use the stick

i didn't mean to start a language history debate, guys

i just wanted to make a joke about the polish language being hard to pronounce

i mean, that's a bit of an over simplification

but he certainly did have people who were vocal about their hatred of the communist state and he had those within the party who were deemed reactionary or revisionist removed

with varying degrees of violence

at least, to my understanding

however, he did give us one great thing.

the idea for a trotsky halloween costume with a fake icepick sticking out of the head

absolute m a d m a n

if anybody i know would get that joke, i would go as trotsky.

instead, i'm going as nietzsche and screaming at people about wills in a silly german accent.

yeah, the gulags weren't fun

yeah

everyone knows it was 200 million

neber forget the ebils of gommunism :DDDDDDD

Joseph "No Rain in The Ukraine" Stalin

i'm unsure of the exact numbers because the most i know about the purges and all of that are mainly that of the officer corps of the red army, and that wasn't significant in proportion the the USSR's population

there's a historian that i keep up with who says the most he'd credit him with is 20m, but he's also a trotskyist and a military historian, and he's said himself that he doesn't know the exact number

probably less than 20m, probably more than 3

yeah, definitely more

i think 15-20 is a good ballpark

and after famines

it was about 30m soviets that died in the war, no?

mostly civilians.

so that's still 30m unaccounted for, but there were food shortages immediately after the war as well iirc

oh yeah.

the germans were too, which makes the eastern front a CLUSTERFUCK

yeah.

and this is coming from somebody who likes studying the eastern front a lot.

i know that a lot of SS units greatly exaggerated kill counts

and a lot of immediate postwar memoirs available in the us were written by german generals acquitted of warcrimes

yep.

and the us bought into it because heck, we thought we were gonna be fightin' the commies next and we needed to know how they worked

yeah, i believe it. soviet documents are a clusterfuck

oh yeah, i just meant from a standpoint of analyzing casualty counts and the like

well, a lot of western understanding of the eastern front comes from these memoirs, which tend to paint wehrmacht actions in a very positive light compared to the soviets.

also

fun game

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bagration

check out the casualty counts in this article. none of the historians can agree.

this was one of the largest army operations in the whole war

and documents are *shit*

yeah, the SS were definitely more politically driven than the wehrmacht heer

valkyrie being the most famous and close to success IIRC

there was some compliance in war crimes though

manstein, for example, was a pretty dedicated nazi

the wehrmacht were definitely compliant

i just got 11 ground kills in an il-2 on korea on war thunder without so much as seeing an enemy aircraft.

ama.

i don't think they're being dogmatic about it

i think they're basically putting it out there that nobody was clean

especially not within the german ranks

i mean, if they wanted to do that then they could have gone with something that was a bit safer

if anything, the clean wehrmacht archetype is easier to stomach

i mean, the photographs help

also, sry for not responding

war thunder

i mean, the western allies also took photographs.

they found camps too.

can you send some to texas

thanks

m u t u a l a i d

*sobs*

eichmann also admitted to the whole thing, didn't he?

well, i don't think it's above questioning

but i do think that it happened

i think there's a good amount of evidence to support that

well, i think you're incorrect in that assumption

i think the wealth of information available points in the direction that the holocaust did indeed happen and that there's not much evidence that it didn't

https://www.fold3.com/title/622/wwii-german-documents-among-war-crimes-records

there's some good stuff in here

the eichmann trials are good

the nuremberg trials in general are good

huh, didn't show that on desktop

sorry about that

i mean, transcriptions of the eichmann trials, the eichmann interrogations and the nuremberg trials are widely available

i mean, from what i can gather, a lot of them weren't

all of them weren't, from what i can tell

well, i remember reading a while back (i'll have to dig it up) that the american and british investigators didn't for one quite simple reason

they needed the trials to be legitimate

the needed to set a precedent for war crimes trials because nothing like it had really been pulled off before

if we couldn't hide a couple of guys breaking into the watergate hotel, how would we manage to pull that off

i think at some point, occam's razor has to come into play here

there's either a massive judeo-bolshevist conspiracy that's infiltrated the ranks of every major power on the fact of the earth and interrogated former nazis and fabricated a holocaust and nobody found out, and these jewish communists were also vehemently opposed to the USSR...

...or maybe this far-right ultranationalist fascist organization that spouted inflammatory rhetoric about how jews and communists needed to be purged, and formulated *Generalplan Ost* to provide lebensraum for the aryan race, *actually went through with it*

or at least attempted to

from my understanding, it was a form of settler colonialism where the nazis believed in taking lands in eastern europe and giving them back to aryans

even if that's an incorrect definition, generalplan ost was very real

http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/GPO/gpo%20sources.htm

i never said german, i said aryan. racially, he considered the slovaks, the french and the hungarians superior. I believe he met with muslim and hindu nationalists to royally (pun intended) fuck the british.

then what in sam hell was generalplan ost?

What was the warsaw ghetto, then?

then why are there so many accounts of the summary executions of jewish civilians or just civilians in general? And i know you're going to say that eyewitness testimony isn't very good, but what about when it's on the scale of millions?

http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/GPO/gpo%20sources.htm

what are these?

https://www.ushmm.org/remember/the-holocaust-survivors-and-victims-resource-center/survivors-and-victims/survivor-testimonies

you can find interviews of holocaust survivors quite easily

if you keep deeming my evidence as falsified, and i find it reliable, i don't think either of us are going to convince eachother, my man.