this is more recent but it shows that the lack of property right norms actually led to most businesses

yeah

the state used the dispute to take the site

and its this type of economic instability for ownership of property that led to the Dutch disease and complete dependency on oil

Russia too has nationalized oil and did not suffer this drawback

and the currency issue is literally retarded

international business causing your currency to be pegged lower than others is problematic

the government could of easily dealt with this by embracing cheap production

i dont see this as disputing anything

state seizures for the sake of giving bureaucrats more wealth, who wouldve thought

Chavez literally instigated the effects of Dutch disease

foreign manufactures like textiles, cars and so on were threatened with take over of their property

also made their economy dependent on oil leading to the current crisis

thats not a benefit, its a negative

it had the option of diversifying

it didnt

literally because foreign relocation of production was disincentivized

"currency crisis" they wanted to keep a consumer economy by keeping up the value of their currency

no it isnt because it prevents future relocation of production

in their country

its basically the same as making their nation a big wasp on the map of profitable production sectors for international relocation of production

not without foreign help

hell even the soviet union was trash without the US selling them machine tools and other factory production products

that isnt self-sufficient

they can increase self-sufficiency simply by first obtaining the production and then creating a competitive market to gain more

not if you dont have it in the first place

literally China, Germany and the Soviet Union, three massive examples (Germany can count as two so four examples) of industrialization were all attached to American production setting up or selling in these countries

Soviet Union only industrialized 'cause of American machine tool being sold to them

Germany and China both created competitive labor markets that incentivized international companies setting up production there

lol?

im making it clear that socialism has historically not been able to build it self up

and hell, youre a marxist right?

so even you must accept capitalism > socialism > communism timeline presented by marx theory

lol china only succeeded after the late 1970s economic reforms that rejected Mao

No, they didnt

they literally created 4 economic sectors that said "relocate here international business"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_economic_reform

we can also look at the great leap and see how that turned out

"The Communist Party authorities began economic reforms introducing market principles in 1978 and carried them out in two stages. The first stage, in the late 1970s and early 1980s, involved the de-collectivization of agriculture, the opening up of the country to foreign investment, and permission for entrepreneurs to start businesses. "

citing from an age of mercantilism is not a great example

im highlighting what you ignored that came before

yes and do you know what theyre referring to?

let looks at it in the full perspective now

"The second stage of reform, in the late 1980s and 1990s, involved the privatization and contracting out of much state-owned industry and the lifting of price controls, protectionist policies, and regulations, although state monopolies in sectors such as banking and petroleum remained. The private sector grew remarkably, accounting for as much as 70 percent of China's gross domestic product by 2005.[5] From 1978 until 2013, unprecedented growth occurred, with the economy increasing by 9.5% a year."

literally opening up their markerts and freeing them increased real wages

no, after they undid Mao's part

you cant attribute success to the policies undid

thats dumb

that's like saying western Germany was successful economically due to the third Reich

yes pre 1970s which led to failure

> great leap forward was good

lol

it did

im saying 1978 is when they started actually progressing

and i stand by that

once again, thats like saying western Germany was successful economically due to the third Reich

it is when they undid those policies that they progressed

yeah first stage

that didnt help them

what did was decentralizing agriculture

keeping state owned production didnt do much there

"Although the economy grew quickly during this period, economic troubles in the inefficient state sector increased. Heavy losses had to be made up by state revenues and acted as a drain upon the economy.[21] Inflation became problematic in 1985, 1988 and 1992.[20] Privatizations began to accelerate after 1992, and the private sector grew as a percentage of GDP. China's government slowly expanded recognition of the private economy, first as a "complement" to the state sector (1988) and then as an "important component" (1999) of the socialist market economy."

yes im showing you that state ownership didnt carry over any success

"The country was opened to foreign investment for the first time since the Kuomintang era. Deng created a series of special economic zones for foreign investment that were relatively free of the bureaucratic regulations and interventions that hampered economic growth. These regions became engines of growth for the national economy."

wait, which are you referring to here @DA GOMMIE JOO

lol no

inflation is when sellers demand premium for selling their good in a certain currency cause they feel currency is unsafe investment

the analogy fails to have significance here

it succeeds across entire nations as well

hell most of the problems we have in the US is due to fucking shit regulation like on housing

what do you mean by "entire nations"?

im talking about having property norms and courts to assure rules and regulations of private enterprise that can sell, buy and trade as they see fit within that realm of law & order

so what are you referring to?

my definition of economic freedom is the same heritages

and if you want i can show data on how having higher rate of that economic freedom correlates to success

k which do you want to see, gdp per capita, real wages or so on?

k let me look it up

https://www.heritage.org/index/pdf/2016/book/chapter1.pdf

theres more corresponding data sets but ill have to look for the right ones

https://mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de/49220/1/MPRA_paper_49220.pdf

@DA GOMMIE JOO sorry was away

making spaghetti

yeah there it seems to go in the opposite trend but the general tend is the other way around

We can stay its a U rather than a linear progression

but other than a small u curve most countries that rank higher on Economic freedom does better

a really big point

not like im an ancap

so ofc im not gonna argue for something as stupid as stateless capitalism

Here ill get the listing for you

lol no!

no no no

a lot of regulations are in place due to corporations shilling for their product

especially car companies

like all of the road, building and parking lots regulations mostly tie to them

its not calculated as economic freedom for solely the business end

like building regulations are taken into account

and a lot of those regulations are killing our society and world through climate change and limiting real estate

yes, studies have shown infrastructure for cars incentivized greater and greater car use