#politics-free-for-all (Discord ID: 372513679964635138) in /r/SargonOfAkkad (Sparta), page 7
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if people can make a 40 IQ point gap just by going to a different country then the 10-15 point gap average between races is laregly irrelevant
again, by your own metrics, the japanese and the jews are the master race
@radeon The whole point of the study was that they tested the IQs of black children adopted into upper middle-class white families, and while there was a minor positive effect on intelligence during early years, by the time they were 17-18 years old, their IQ was the same as the average black average, which proves that IQ is a genetic trait.
it isn't proof, its evidence
it won't be proof until you prove that correlation equals causation
The substance of the study still remains the exact same. IQ is genetic and environment has little to do with it
And what are you sugesting we do
an individual study, yes, but that isn't *proof*
I'm not suggesting anything, just pointing out the obvious reality of the situtation
IQ is not the sole metric for racial quality obviously
I don't agree
I can find plenty of studies supporting young earth creationism, but theres also a mountain of peer-reviewed studies that explicitly disprove it
not from what you've shown us so far
Go ahead and find those creationism studies
Charles I know
Radeon implied that you did
i'm waiting for the melanin causes violent tendancies hot take
Idiotic surface level understanding of racial differences
Low IQ and higher levels of testosterone in blacks contribute to their disproportionate rates of violent crime @radeon
how does low IQ cause crime, directly?
I see where this is going . Get rid of blacks get rid of crime
stupid people are not fundamentally violent there has to be an underlying reason
yep nice straw man
Only if you're an idiot is that the solution
this conversation is devolving
Slippery slope fallacy
it's the same reason why Richard Spencer says he wants to peacefully remove all non whites of America, when he knows quite well that it's impossible to do it peacefully
well, to be honest, it was pretty devolved to begin with 😛
Let me ask you, am I an asian supremacist for pointing out that Asians have a genetically higher average IQ? They also make more money and commit less crime
Why is it that when blacks are doing badly it's a result of ''racism'', but when Asians are doing comparatively better you just ignore it to fit your agenda?
if we accept your conclusions, Charles
But it's not a result of racism
I never claimed that
where have we said that?
speaking of strawmen...
Well subcultures affect it too
We don't believe blacks are doing badly because of that
literally no one said that
Many on the left say just that
Most centrists though ascribe most of the responsibility to cultural factors
From what I've seen
Since most leftists claim that, I just wanted to make sure we are on the same page here
I ascribe it to the consequences of the welfare state goign out of control
and of course the drug war
it turns into a snowball effect
if economic condition alone can bridge a ***50*** IQ gap than I fail to see how "race realism" is in any way relevant
your own chart proved it.
If X gives you 50 points, I don't see how getting 10 more points matters
You will almost never meet a black individual with an IQ of a 120 or higher
your brain capacity one which had a line lazily drawn on as though there is legitimate correlation despite a 20 IQ difference between roughly equivilent size
From a policy making perspective, I can't really see what the supposed insight you're providing, could possibly help. If we accept that blacks are just inherently inferior and cannot rise from their supposed mental depths, what feasible, fair and legal policy could you possibly suggest that would improve the situation?
>You will almost never meet a black individual with an IQ of a 120 or higher
mine is 126
No one said inherently inferior
@radeon That sounds like a false equivalence, as your hypothesis directly conflicts with the study I linked that proves that IQ is an entirely genetic trait
how can you possibly say its entirely genetic?
The argument that I've seen that makes sense to me is that IQ and other differences at least call into question the narrative that racism is the determining factor against black success
What is the point of this debate If you dont want any policy changes?
you're saying some fucking chechen in a hut in the mountains has a 140 IQ?
To find the truth...
Considering Whites and Asians made the best civilizations and blacks made the shittiest ones, it would make sense to call them inferior if what Charles says is true
By your standards maybe
@Fulcrum010 If I were to see a woman that is 6'3, would it be fair for me to make the claim that women are taller than men based on an individual case? That is a logical fallacy
could it perhaps be that civilizations that embrace meritocracy do the best?
did i said that all blacks have the same IQ i have? nope, i'm just saying that it isn't that uncommon, plus, individuals with 120+ are rare, independent of their races
has it occurred to anyone that the cultural construct that is 'blackness' in the US which totally rejects meritocracy as 'being white' could perhaps contribute to the IQ deficit?
@radeon Why would meritocracy be more prevalent in Caucasian countries than in Negroid countries? The Chinese do not live in a meritocracy, yet their average IQ is higher than that of white countries.
the Japanese do
so do the jews
and there are plenty of white cultures that aren't meritocratic
Right, cultural factors
That doesn't make racial differences go away
You just made the claim that meritocracy results in a higher average IQ, and since the Chinese live in a strictly collectivist system, your hypothesis can be deemed to be false
they don't though
They are far more collectivist culturally
i don't know how much you know about modern china but they are capitalism in a pseudo-communist framework
they don't value hard work as much as they value the quantity of work
China is more capitalist than America in fact
Also, the vast majority of African countries live in a capitalist system, so the idea that meritocracy could have effected the IQ within a few centuries to such an extent is just ridiculous, especially when you consider the brain volume differences within the races, as well as genetic variations
At least that's what i hear
they build apartment complexes that house nobody simply to support a housing bubble
same with the chinese really. Poor work ethics, and poor overall efficiency, but a LOT of work hours makes up for it.
yea im sure zimbabwe is a real ancap paradise my dude
Meritocracy is more than just capitalism
Meritocracy does not result in a higher average IQ, unless you can point me to a study which proves such a claim
did you just skip the chapter of history class where the ANC took ideoligcal contro lof southern africa with backing by the soviet union?
We're considering complex factors. Don't demand a study for such an abstract idea
you're trying to shift the burden of proof.
you came to us.
There are many perfectly reasonable explanations to IQ variations, that can be proved by looking at genetics and differing evolutionary pressures on populations living in different environments.
Then we need more race mixing
@franti To lower the IQ of whites and Asians? That's stupid
what is your alternative?
heh, franti, there was an end blurb of a news report here about IQ ceilings being reached, that suggested we go out and find us an East Asian mate
don't come to us spouting shit about blacks being inferior and then act coy when it comes to policy.
Going back to Africans nations being captialist
To not forcefully mix races and let individuals choose for themselves who they want to reproduce with? @radeon
whos forcing races to mix?
He is dodgy
I didn't claim blacks were inferior, by that logic I claimed that whites were inferior to asians
What are the policies
no maam you *must* fuck this black man
This is pretty typical
Just because I point out differences doesn't mean I'm claiming one race to be''inferior'' to another
The policy implications are scary and racism so let's ignore genetics
Then we have no problem
you did link the low IQ to negative societal effects
Let's ignore crime, economic development and culture so we won't be called racist for pointing out the obvious differences between racial groups
bring us to your conslusion, oh wokest one
They're getting sensitive
can we get a show of hands of everyone who actively denied that there are differences between races?
There is a correlation between the wealth of a nation and the average IQ of its citizens
So lowering the average IQ wouldn't be a good idea
If you are in favour of universal human right than the policy implications matter
Through mixing up the races
You tried to wave it away
you're implying race mixing lowers IQ, which again you have no proof for
Now who's being coy
you clearly don't understand hgow genetics work because you actually aren't a perfect half between your parents
@radeon If you mix a black person with an IQ of 70 with a White person with an IQ of 105 you are going to get a child that has an IQ lower than 105. That is pretty basic genetics
@radeon Never claimed you are a ''perfect half'', but certainly lower
That is not necessarily true, although it appears likely
Very likely, in fact
by your same logic if a person with blue eyes has a child with a person with green eyes their eyes would be teal
that of course isnt the case
Who has the dominant gene?
how do you know the genes that promote higher IQ aren't dominant?
@Boris Todbringer You just showed that you really have no idea how genetics works
I am talking about averages here
The dominant Gene will take over even if the other gene is different
i love this, 4th grader tier genetics
That's not how genetics work
Except intelligence is not controlled by a single gene
genetics don't work with averages
let me explain it to you how this works
think of your genetic code as a wrestling team
Even if the white parent has the dominant gene, the IQ will likely not be higher than 105 regardless. Are you impliying that the other parent's genes have no influence on the child's genetic makeup? @meratrix
Btw we still dont know what the majority of our genes do
eaach gene is a wrestler, and the other set of genes from the other parent are a roughly equivieent team with some genes weaker but some stronger
If the other parents gene is recessive than it has no affect as long as the other gene is dominant
I meant DNA sorry
the child will be the winners if you pair up those two teams
the dominant gene
@Boris Todbringer You honestly know absolutley nothing about genetics
its not like you have literally every gene from both parents
Genes do not work like averages
If your dad is 6'1 and your mother is 4'11 you have a much lower chance of being more than 6'1 because of the influence your mother's height will have on your height. You clearly don't know anything about genetics either. It is true that the dad's genes may be dominant, but that doesn't render the genes of the other parent completely futile @meratrix
thats factually untrue
your height is largely random within a specific range
If you mix a pygmy with a Nordic, should we expect the child to be either 100% black or 100% white? No, the child would be somewhere in the middle
That is just stupid
for all we know 6'1 is short for the dads family and you inherit the dads gene and become 6'5
height is actually largely determined by genes interacting with the environment
not just the genes themselves
> genes interacting with the environment
are you trolling us?
The environment that you grow up in has no effect on your genetic makeup, lmao
the environment does have an effect on the human body
how do genes interact with anything but other genes
lol don't try to use this as a gotcha you're still wrong
stunted growth from disease for example,you may have been tall, but if growth is stunted that won't happen
but thats not genetic
yes, but it is part of height, which he brought up
trying to get a gotcha
Can you answer my question then? Shouldn't we expect the offpsring between a pygmy from the Congo basin and someone from Northern Europe to either be 100% white or 100% black? That makes no sense @radeon
If your gene theory were to be correct, that would be the result
no, because there are multiple genetic pairs that go into pigmentation
same with hair color
are you speaking in terms of melanin content?
and eye color
There are also multiple genetic pairs that go into your IQ and your height
yes, but the dominance and recessive relationship still holds
@meratrix this is why mixed race children with the same parents can have varying skin tones
But that doesn't render the other parent's genes futile
it does when they aren't dominant
no, it renders them more irrelivent
@radeon They can, but they will never be either 100% white or 100% black
Cum is white therefore everyone is white.
and if they have mostly recessive genes, then they are completley meaningless
there are a finite number of genes you have you don't retain every gene from your parents
you get the ones that were dominant
unless of course you get the same gene from both parentsa which everybody does because thats what makes us all human, but thats not important
tell us more about the evils of race mixing, imperial wizard
also explain to us how white-chinese interracial children living in china don't have a lower IQ than the rest of the population
And mixed race people are pretyy fucking hot if you ask me, just look at Cape Verde
or some mestisos
I can tell you that miscenegation is the sole reason the average IQ of an african-american is 85, compared to the 65-70 you'd expect if they were 100% Negroid
African-americans have 20-25% Caucasoid genes on average
Which is why their IQ is as high as it is
are you honestly so fruitcake you don't believe environment plays a factor?
ok, i have one for you
hear me out
why are african immigrants in the US, particularly those from nigeria, more successful than native african americans?
How many white-asian mixed races individuals are there living in China? The sample size isn't even large enough to make a conclusive statement. The region of China also plays a part on what their IQ will be, so it makes no sense to compare it to the Chinese average and then make a conclusion
a large chunk of the population of Hong Kong
China is around the size of the US, and has plenty of different ethnic and racial groups, some of which have a lower IQ than others, so comparing your samples to the average makes no sense
china is 96% Han Chinese
the rest are some closely related ethnic minority groups
whites are very rare in china
But the IQ isn't universal accross the country
outside of major cities at least
And what is your sample size and what was the IQ of the Caucasian ancestors of the mixed individuals?
how do you account for that? after all, you said genetics are the only thing that mattewr
Lol that's a nice straw man
About the Nigerian immigrant question, most Nigerians that immigrate to the US immigrate for educational reasons, and many of them have a university degree, so you can expect for them to be individuals of higher IQ compared to the average african-american. Many of them also share genes from Caucasian through miscenegation during colonization
i'm just watching you tear apart your own arguments
lol how many nigerians do you think have white ancestry?>
You ask me a question and act like that's some ''gotcha'' moment and then I tear apart your question
keeping in mind that race mixing was extreme taboo at the time
You said more succesful, which doesn't imply they have a higher IQ necessarily, considering that most of them migrate for university studies
So that question is stupid
An individual from Nigeria with a university degree is more likely to get a job and thus be more successful
the correlation between ecomonic success and IQ is obvious
Once again, if you have a university degree from Nigeria and you are moving to the US for a job that you can get thanks to your University degree, you are obviously going to be more successful than someone who has lived their whole lives within the US
Are we happy now politics