#politics-free-for-all (Discord ID: 372513679964635138) in /r/SargonOfAkkad (Sparta), page 7

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2017-11-06 19:33:40 UTC

if people can make a 40 IQ point gap just by going to a different country then the 10-15 point gap average between races is laregly irrelevant

2017-11-06 19:34:06 UTC

again, by your own metrics, the japanese and the jews are the master race

2017-11-06 19:34:11 UTC

@radeon The whole point of the study was that they tested the IQs of black children adopted into upper middle-class white families, and while there was a minor positive effect on intelligence during early years, by the time they were 17-18 years old, their IQ was the same as the average black average, which proves that IQ is a genetic trait.

2017-11-06 19:34:27 UTC

it isn't proof, its evidence

2017-11-06 19:34:44 UTC

it won't be proof until you prove that correlation equals causation

2017-11-06 19:35:08 UTC

The substance of the study still remains the exact same. IQ is genetic and environment has little to do with it

2017-11-06 19:35:19 UTC

And what are you sugesting we do

2017-11-06 19:35:33 UTC

an individual study, yes, but that isn't *proof*

2017-11-06 19:35:38 UTC

I'm not suggesting anything, just pointing out the obvious reality of the situtation

2017-11-06 19:35:49 UTC

obvious reality

2017-11-06 19:35:51 UTC

IQ is not the sole metric for racial quality obviously

2017-11-06 19:35:52 UTC

I don't agree

2017-11-06 19:35:55 UTC

I can find plenty of studies supporting young earth creationism, but theres also a mountain of peer-reviewed studies that explicitly disprove it

2017-11-06 19:36:00 UTC

not from what you've shown us so far

2017-11-06 19:36:01 UTC

at least

2017-11-06 19:36:08 UTC

@BrianBoru I never claimed that

2017-11-06 19:36:11 UTC

Go ahead and find those creationism studies

2017-11-06 19:36:20 UTC

Charles I know

2017-11-06 19:36:32 UTC

Radeon implied that you did

2017-11-06 19:36:35 UTC

i'm waiting for the melanin causes violent tendancies hot take

2017-11-06 19:36:53 UTC

Idiotic surface level understanding of racial differences

2017-11-06 19:37:07 UTC


2017-11-06 19:37:08 UTC

Low IQ and higher levels of testosterone in blacks contribute to their disproportionate rates of violent crime @radeon

2017-11-06 19:37:15 UTC

Not melanin

2017-11-06 19:37:45 UTC

how does low IQ cause crime, directly?

2017-11-06 19:37:49 UTC


2017-11-06 19:38:02 UTC

I see where this is going . Get rid of blacks get rid of crime

2017-11-06 19:38:11 UTC

stupid people are not fundamentally violent there has to be an underlying reason

2017-11-06 19:38:11 UTC

yep nice straw man

2017-11-06 19:38:18 UTC

nope, he will never say that @franti

2017-11-06 19:38:20 UTC

Only if you're an idiot is that the solution

2017-11-06 19:38:38 UTC

this conversation is devolving

2017-11-06 19:38:51 UTC

@Boris Todbringer I am just following this to its conclusion

2017-11-06 19:38:56 UTC


2017-11-06 19:39:12 UTC

Slippery slope fallacy

2017-11-06 19:39:19 UTC

it's the same reason why Richard Spencer says he wants to peacefully remove all non whites of America, when he knows quite well that it's impossible to do it peacefully

2017-11-06 19:39:20 UTC

well, to be honest, it was pretty devolved to begin with πŸ˜›

2017-11-06 19:39:21 UTC

Let me ask you, am I an asian supremacist for pointing out that Asians have a genetically higher average IQ? They also make more money and commit less crime

2017-11-06 19:40:04 UTC

Why is it that when blacks are doing badly it's a result of ''racism'', but when Asians are doing comparatively better you just ignore it to fit your agenda?

2017-11-06 19:40:20 UTC

if we accept your conclusions, Charles

2017-11-06 19:40:20 UTC

But it's not a result of racism

2017-11-06 19:40:21 UTC

I never claimed that

2017-11-06 19:40:25 UTC

where have we said that?

2017-11-06 19:40:25 UTC

what then?

2017-11-06 19:40:28 UTC

speaking of strawmen...

2017-11-06 19:40:35 UTC

Well subcultures affect it too

2017-11-06 19:41:14 UTC

We don't believe blacks are doing badly because of that

2017-11-06 19:41:18 UTC

literally no one said that

2017-11-06 19:42:22 UTC

Many on the left say just that

2017-11-06 19:42:52 UTC

Most centrists though ascribe most of the responsibility to cultural factors

2017-11-06 19:43:04 UTC

From what I've seen

2017-11-06 19:43:14 UTC

Since most leftists claim that, I just wanted to make sure we are on the same page here

2017-11-06 19:43:18 UTC

I ascribe it to the consequences of the welfare state goign out of control

2017-11-06 19:43:23 UTC

and of course the drug war

2017-11-06 19:43:27 UTC

compunding that

2017-11-06 19:43:49 UTC

it turns into a snowball effect

2017-11-06 19:44:03 UTC

if economic condition alone can bridge a ***50*** IQ gap than I fail to see how "race realism" is in any way relevant

2017-11-06 19:44:16 UTC

It doesn't

2017-11-06 19:44:16 UTC


2017-11-06 19:44:42 UTC

your own chart proved it.

2017-11-06 19:44:52 UTC

Which one?

2017-11-06 19:44:54 UTC

If X gives you 50 points, I don't see how getting 10 more points matters

2017-11-06 19:44:57 UTC


2017-11-06 19:45:43 UTC

You will almost never meet a black individual with an IQ of a 120 or higher

2017-11-06 19:45:43 UTC

your brain capacity one which had a line lazily drawn on as though there is legitimate correlation despite a 20 IQ difference between roughly equivilent size

2017-11-06 19:45:48 UTC

From a policy making perspective, I can't really see what the supposed insight you're providing, could possibly help. If we accept that blacks are just inherently inferior and cannot rise from their supposed mental depths, what feasible, fair and legal policy could you possibly suggest that would improve the situation?

2017-11-06 19:46:10 UTC

>You will almost never meet a black individual with an IQ of a 120 or higher

mine is 126


2017-11-06 19:46:17 UTC

No one said inherently inferior

2017-11-06 19:46:33 UTC

@radeon That sounds like a false equivalence, as your hypothesis directly conflicts with the study I linked that proves that IQ is an entirely genetic trait

2017-11-06 19:46:59 UTC

how can you possibly say its entirely genetic?

2017-11-06 19:47:01 UTC

The argument that I've seen that makes sense to me is that IQ and other differences at least call into question the narrative that racism is the determining factor against black success

2017-11-06 19:47:16 UTC

What is the point of this debate If you dont want any policy changes?

2017-11-06 19:47:24 UTC

you're saying some fucking chechen in a hut in the mountains has a 140 IQ?

2017-11-06 19:47:31 UTC

To find the truth...

2017-11-06 19:47:34 UTC

Considering Whites and Asians made the best civilizations and blacks made the shittiest ones, it would make sense to call them inferior if what Charles says is true

2017-11-06 19:47:55 UTC

By your standards maybe

2017-11-06 19:47:57 UTC

@Fulcrum010 If I were to see a woman that is 6'3, would it be fair for me to make the claim that women are taller than men based on an individual case? That is a logical fallacy

2017-11-06 19:47:59 UTC

@BrianBoru it didn't need to be said directly

2017-11-06 19:48:08 UTC

Lol okay

2017-11-06 19:48:09 UTC

could it perhaps be that civilizations that embrace meritocracy do the best?

2017-11-06 19:48:13 UTC

Implying implications

2017-11-06 19:49:03 UTC

did i said that all blacks have the same IQ i have? nope, i'm just saying that it isn't that uncommon, plus, individuals with 120+ are rare, independent of their races

2017-11-06 19:49:19 UTC

has it occurred to anyone that the cultural construct that is 'blackness' in the US which totally rejects meritocracy as 'being white' could perhaps contribute to the IQ deficit?

2017-11-06 19:49:31 UTC

@radeon Why would meritocracy be more prevalent in Caucasian countries than in Negroid countries? The Chinese do not live in a meritocracy, yet their average IQ is higher than that of white countries.

2017-11-06 19:49:41 UTC

the Japanese do

2017-11-06 19:49:44 UTC

so do the jews

2017-11-06 19:49:55 UTC

and there are plenty of white cultures that aren't meritocratic

2017-11-06 19:50:13 UTC

Right, cultural factors

2017-11-06 19:50:28 UTC

That doesn't make racial differences go away

2017-11-06 19:50:30 UTC

You just made the claim that meritocracy results in a higher average IQ, and since the Chinese live in a strictly collectivist system, your hypothesis can be deemed to be false

2017-11-06 19:50:40 UTC

they don't though

2017-11-06 19:50:43 UTC

they don't

2017-11-06 19:51:04 UTC

They are far more collectivist culturally

2017-11-06 19:51:05 UTC

i don't know how much you know about modern china but they are capitalism in a pseudo-communist framework

2017-11-06 19:51:19 UTC

they don't value hard work as much as they value the quantity of work

2017-11-06 19:51:33 UTC

China is more capitalist than America in fact

2017-11-06 19:51:39 UTC

Also, the vast majority of African countries live in a capitalist system, so the idea that meritocracy could have effected the IQ within a few centuries to such an extent is just ridiculous, especially when you consider the brain volume differences within the races, as well as genetic variations

2017-11-06 19:51:44 UTC

At least that's what i hear

2017-11-06 19:51:47 UTC

they build apartment complexes that house nobody simply to support a housing bubble

2017-11-06 19:52:02 UTC

same with the chinese really. Poor work ethics, and poor overall efficiency, but a LOT of work hours makes up for it.

2017-11-06 19:52:05 UTC

sorry Japanese*

2017-11-06 19:52:26 UTC

yea im sure zimbabwe is a real ancap paradise my dude

2017-11-06 19:52:31 UTC

Meritocracy is more than just capitalism

2017-11-06 19:52:36 UTC

Meritocracy does not result in a higher average IQ, unless you can point me to a study which proves such a claim

2017-11-06 19:53:08 UTC

did you just skip the chapter of history class where the ANC took ideoligcal contro lof southern africa with backing by the soviet union?

2017-11-06 19:53:25 UTC

We're considering complex factors. Don't demand a study for such an abstract idea

2017-11-06 19:53:47 UTC

you're trying to shift the burden of proof.

2017-11-06 19:53:50 UTC

you came to us.

2017-11-06 19:53:51 UTC

There are many perfectly reasonable explanations to IQ variations, that can be proved by looking at genetics and differing evolutionary pressures on populations living in different environments.

2017-11-06 19:54:11 UTC

Then we need more race mixing

2017-11-06 19:54:20 UTC

Lol why?

2017-11-06 19:54:28 UTC

@franti To lower the IQ of whites and Asians? That's stupid

2017-11-06 19:54:50 UTC

what is your alternative?

2017-11-06 19:55:05 UTC

heh, franti, there was an end blurb of a news report here about IQ ceilings being reached, that suggested we go out and find us an East Asian mate

2017-11-06 19:55:10 UTC

don't come to us spouting shit about blacks being inferior and then act coy when it comes to policy.

2017-11-06 19:55:15 UTC

Going back to Africans nations being captialist

2017-11-06 19:55:20 UTC

To not forcefully mix races and let individuals choose for themselves who they want to reproduce with? @radeon

2017-11-06 19:55:36 UTC

whos forcing races to mix?

2017-11-06 19:55:36 UTC

He is dodgy

2017-11-06 19:55:48 UTC


2017-11-06 19:55:52 UTC

I didn't claim blacks were inferior, by that logic I claimed that whites were inferior to asians

2017-11-06 19:55:57 UTC

What are the policies

2017-11-06 19:56:00 UTC

no maam you *must* fuck this black man

2017-11-06 19:56:10 UTC

This is pretty typical

2017-11-06 19:56:14 UTC

Just because I point out differences doesn't mean I'm claiming one race to be''inferior'' to another

2017-11-06 19:56:28 UTC

The policy implications are scary and racism so let's ignore genetics

2017-11-06 19:56:36 UTC

Then we have no problem

2017-11-06 19:56:37 UTC


2017-11-06 19:56:49 UTC

you did link the low IQ to negative societal effects

2017-11-06 19:57:05 UTC

Let's ignore crime, economic development and culture so we won't be called racist for pointing out the obvious differences between racial groups

2017-11-06 19:57:11 UTC

bring us to your conslusion, oh wokest one

2017-11-06 19:57:28 UTC

They're getting sensitive

2017-11-06 19:57:39 UTC

can we get a show of hands of everyone who actively denied that there are differences between races?

2017-11-06 19:57:53 UTC

There is a correlation between the wealth of a nation and the average IQ of its citizens

2017-11-06 19:58:02 UTC

So lowering the average IQ wouldn't be a good idea

2017-11-06 19:58:09 UTC

If you are in favour of universal human right than the policy implications matter

2017-11-06 19:58:10 UTC

Through mixing up the races

2017-11-06 19:58:15 UTC

You tried to wave it away

2017-11-06 19:58:20 UTC

you're implying race mixing lowers IQ, which again you have no proof for

2017-11-06 19:58:20 UTC

Now who's being coy

2017-11-06 19:58:57 UTC

you clearly don't understand hgow genetics work because you actually aren't a perfect half between your parents

2017-11-06 19:59:02 UTC

@radeon If you mix a black person with an IQ of 70 with a White person with an IQ of 105 you are going to get a child that has an IQ lower than 105. That is pretty basic genetics

2017-11-06 19:59:09 UTC

not really

2017-11-06 19:59:33 UTC

@radeon Never claimed you are a ''perfect half'', but certainly lower

2017-11-06 19:59:33 UTC

That is not necessarily true, although it appears likely

2017-11-06 19:59:46 UTC

Very likely, in fact

2017-11-06 19:59:48 UTC

by your same logic if a person with blue eyes has a child with a person with green eyes their eyes would be teal

2017-11-06 19:59:53 UTC

that of course isnt the case

2017-11-06 19:59:54 UTC

Who has the dominant gene?

2017-11-06 20:00:16 UTC

how do you know the genes that promote higher IQ aren't dominant?

2017-11-06 20:00:17 UTC

@Boris Todbringer You just showed that you really have no idea how genetics works

2017-11-06 20:00:35 UTC

I am talking about averages here

2017-11-06 20:00:38 UTC

The dominant Gene will take over even if the other gene is different

2017-11-06 20:00:42 UTC

i love this, 4th grader tier genetics

2017-11-06 20:00:45 UTC

That's not how genetics work

2017-11-06 20:00:57 UTC

Except intelligence is not controlled by a single gene

2017-11-06 20:01:00 UTC

genetics don't work with averages

2017-11-06 20:01:10 UTC

let me explain it to you how this works

2017-11-06 20:01:22 UTC

think of your genetic code as a wrestling team

2017-11-06 20:01:31 UTC

Even if the white parent has the dominant gene, the IQ will likely not be higher than 105 regardless. Are you impliying that the other parent's genes have no influence on the child's genetic makeup? @meratrix

2017-11-06 20:01:53 UTC

Btw we still dont know what the majority of our genes do

2017-11-06 20:02:02 UTC

eaach gene is a wrestler, and the other set of genes from the other parent are a roughly equivieent team with some genes weaker but some stronger

2017-11-06 20:02:10 UTC

If the other parents gene is recessive than it has no affect as long as the other gene is dominant

2017-11-06 20:02:12 UTC

I meant DNA sorry

2017-11-06 20:02:16 UTC
2017-11-06 20:02:16 UTC

the child will be the winners if you pair up those two teams

2017-11-06 20:02:19 UTC

the dominant gene

2017-11-06 20:02:48 UTC

@Boris Todbringer You honestly know absolutley nothing about genetics

2017-11-06 20:02:49 UTC

its not like you have literally every gene from both parents

2017-11-06 20:03:01 UTC

Genes do not work like averages

2017-11-06 20:03:49 UTC

If your dad is 6'1 and your mother is 4'11 you have a much lower chance of being more than 6'1 because of the influence your mother's height will have on your height. You clearly don't know anything about genetics either. It is true that the dad's genes may be dominant, but that doesn't render the genes of the other parent completely futile @meratrix

2017-11-06 20:04:09 UTC

thats factually untrue

2017-11-06 20:04:38 UTC

your height is largely random within a specific range

2017-11-06 20:04:46 UTC

If you mix a pygmy with a Nordic, should we expect the child to be either 100% black or 100% white? No, the child would be somewhere in the middle

2017-11-06 20:04:54 UTC

That is just stupid

2017-11-06 20:04:58 UTC

for all we know 6'1 is short for the dads family and you inherit the dads gene and become 6'5

2017-11-06 20:04:59 UTC

height is actually largely determined by genes interacting with the environment

2017-11-06 20:05:04 UTC

not just the genes themselves

2017-11-06 20:05:14 UTC

> genes interacting with the environment

2017-11-06 20:05:20 UTC

are you trolling us?

2017-11-06 20:05:32 UTC


2017-11-06 20:05:33 UTC


2017-11-06 20:05:42 UTC

The environment that you grow up in has no effect on your genetic makeup, lmao

2017-11-06 20:05:44 UTC

the environment does have an effect on the human body

2017-11-06 20:05:47 UTC

how do genes interact with anything but other genes

2017-11-06 20:05:56 UTC

It doesn't have an effect on your genes, stupid @meratrix

2017-11-06 20:06:15 UTC

lol don't try to use this as a gotcha you're still wrong

2017-11-06 20:06:25 UTC

stunted growth from disease for example,you may have been tall, but if growth is stunted that won't happen

2017-11-06 20:06:43 UTC

but thats not genetic

2017-11-06 20:07:02 UTC

yes, but it is part of height, which he brought up

2017-11-06 20:07:10 UTC

trying to get a gotcha

2017-11-06 20:07:11 UTC

Can you answer my question then? Shouldn't we expect the offpsring between a pygmy from the Congo basin and someone from Northern Europe to either be 100% white or 100% black? That makes no sense @radeon

2017-11-06 20:07:30 UTC

If your gene theory were to be correct, that would be the result

2017-11-06 20:07:32 UTC

no, because there are multiple genetic pairs that go into pigmentation

2017-11-06 20:07:36 UTC

same with hair color

2017-11-06 20:07:36 UTC

are you speaking in terms of melanin content?

2017-11-06 20:07:47 UTC

and eye color

2017-11-06 20:07:50 UTC

There are also multiple genetic pairs that go into your IQ and your height

2017-11-06 20:08:06 UTC

yes, but the dominance and recessive relationship still holds

2017-11-06 20:08:15 UTC

@meratrix this is why mixed race children with the same parents can have varying skin tones

2017-11-06 20:08:24 UTC

But that doesn't render the other parent's genes futile

2017-11-06 20:08:29 UTC
2017-11-06 20:08:36 UTC

it does when they aren't dominant

2017-11-06 20:08:39 UTC

no, it renders them more irrelivent

2017-11-06 20:08:50 UTC

@radeon They can, but they will never be either 100% white or 100% black

2017-11-06 20:08:51 UTC

Cum is white therefore everyone is white.

Problem solved.

2017-11-06 20:08:53 UTC

and if they have mostly recessive genes, then they are completley meaningless

2017-11-06 20:09:06 UTC

there are a finite number of genes you have you don't retain every gene from your parents

2017-11-06 20:09:23 UTC

you get the ones that were dominant

2017-11-06 20:10:02 UTC

unless of course you get the same gene from both parentsa which everybody does because thats what makes us all human, but thats not important

2017-11-06 20:10:59 UTC

tell us more about the evils of race mixing, imperial wizard

2017-11-06 20:12:05 UTC

also explain to us how white-chinese interracial children living in china don't have a lower IQ than the rest of the population

2017-11-06 20:12:17 UTC

And mixed race people are pretyy fucking hot if you ask me, just look at Cape Verde

2017-11-06 20:12:32 UTC

or some mestisos

2017-11-06 20:13:33 UTC

I can tell you that miscenegation is the sole reason the average IQ of an african-american is 85, compared to the 65-70 you'd expect if they were 100% Negroid

2017-11-06 20:13:46 UTC

Explain that

2017-11-06 20:13:58 UTC


2017-11-06 20:14:12 UTC

African-americans have 20-25% Caucasoid genes on average

2017-11-06 20:14:21 UTC

Which is why their IQ is as high as it is

2017-11-06 20:14:26 UTC

are you honestly so fruitcake you don't believe environment plays a factor?

2017-11-06 20:14:44 UTC

ok, i have one for you

2017-11-06 20:14:48 UTC

hear me out

2017-11-06 20:15:13 UTC

why are african immigrants in the US, particularly those from nigeria, more successful than native african americans?

2017-11-06 20:15:49 UTC

How many white-asian mixed races individuals are there living in China? The sample size isn't even large enough to make a conclusive statement. The region of China also plays a part on what their IQ will be, so it makes no sense to compare it to the Chinese average and then make a conclusion

2017-11-06 20:16:08 UTC

a large chunk of the population of Hong Kong

2017-11-06 20:16:12 UTC

and Macau

2017-11-06 20:16:45 UTC

China is around the size of the US, and has plenty of different ethnic and racial groups, some of which have a lower IQ than others, so comparing your samples to the average makes no sense

2017-11-06 20:16:58 UTC


2017-11-06 20:16:59 UTC

very wrong

2017-11-06 20:17:06 UTC

china is 96% Han Chinese

2017-11-06 20:17:19 UTC

the rest are some closely related ethnic minority groups

2017-11-06 20:17:29 UTC

whites are very rare in china

2017-11-06 20:17:33 UTC

But the IQ isn't universal accross the country

2017-11-06 20:17:35 UTC

outside of major cities at least

2017-11-06 20:17:57 UTC

And what is your sample size and what was the IQ of the Caucasian ancestors of the mixed individuals?

2017-11-06 20:18:00 UTC

how do you account for that? after all, you said genetics are the only thing that mattewr

2017-11-06 20:19:08 UTC

Lol that's a nice straw man

2017-11-06 20:19:53 UTC

About the Nigerian immigrant question, most Nigerians that immigrate to the US immigrate for educational reasons, and many of them have a university degree, so you can expect for them to be individuals of higher IQ compared to the average african-american. Many of them also share genes from Caucasian through miscenegation during colonization

2017-11-06 20:20:14 UTC

i'm just watching you tear apart your own arguments

2017-11-06 20:20:47 UTC

lol how many nigerians do you think have white ancestry?>

2017-11-06 20:20:55 UTC

You ask me a question and act like that's some ''gotcha'' moment and then I tear apart your question

2017-11-06 20:21:04 UTC

keeping in mind that race mixing was extreme taboo at the time

2017-11-06 20:23:13 UTC

You said more succesful, which doesn't imply they have a higher IQ necessarily, considering that most of them migrate for university studies

2017-11-06 20:23:18 UTC

So that question is stupid

2017-11-06 20:23:52 UTC

An individual from Nigeria with a university degree is more likely to get a job and thus be more successful

2017-11-06 20:24:14 UTC

the correlation between ecomonic success and IQ is obvious

2017-11-06 20:25:05 UTC

Once again, if you have a university degree from Nigeria and you are moving to the US for a job that you can get thanks to your University degree, you are obviously going to be more successful than someone who has lived their whole lives within the US

2017-11-06 20:37:15 UTC

Are we happy now politics

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