if we're being honest then 'european values' are whatever the person using the term wants them to be

Values is the incorrect term

The correct wording should be self pride

@SilverLining Define cosmopolitan

The real problem with Europe is the feeling of self hatred over the sins of the past, even though none of those were exclusive to Europe, Europe was simply the region of the world that was able to carry them out ona global scale

essentially, a set of believes defining all humans as equal

hmm

"none of those were exclusive to Europe"

>muh holocaust

can you tell me which non-european nation

I'm going to wait for it

well, sure, genocide too, go for that

Here it comes

it's coming

>muh colonialism

is next

... can you maybe not?

Well you're about to say something retarded, I'm only helping you in avoiding the embarrassment @SilverLining

You should be thanking me

anyhow, I was going to discuss the brutality of imperialism

I was right

and that proves?

I could point out you saying "But ottomans, moth!"

and that'd mean nothing

Nothing, it just paints a picture of what kind of person you are in my head

(even though the ottomans actually were pretty benevolent under the millet system)

okay, so your point against that is?

also, it's not really anti-european to point that out

it's just pointing out a historical truth

@SilverLining Japan for one

if any other ethnicity were in europe, then yes, they'd do the same thing

China

Vietnam

Japan modeled its government off of European states

Vietnam to this day oppresses ethnic minorities

As do most countries, actually

and I'm not justifying that?

>can you tell me which non-european nation

>Wow dude, you're such an idiot for proving me wrong

On the same extent and scale, razor.

which non-european nation invaded four other continents and suppressed the natives

That's a bit of a cop-out. Vietnam was not as advanced as Europe technologically speaking.

But they did the same thing you're mentioning now

dwindling their numbers down severely, or simply committing atrocities against them in order to advance their own wealth

They did oppress people in the regions they conquered

Not on the same scale

and like

I'm not saying there should be 'self-hatred' in europe or anything

"Not on the same scale" is the biggest fucking co-out ever and you know it

*cop out

if I have a bow and arrows or swords instead of rifles

just merely that europeans should own up to what they did, and why the economic/political imbalance exists presently

I'm going to be able to kill more people

do you get what I'm saying?

Do you get what I'm saying?

Essentially, I'm trying to say that Europe's current position of power was built on a fuck ton of corpses, and that it's not really something to be proud of

just like

be a person, y'know

The first thing that needs to be established before this conversation is to continue is why you'

you're crafting a cop-out

You're not powerful because you belong to a particular race

except I'm not?

"Europe's current position of power was built on a fuck ton of corpses"

Do you think China's position of power isn't built on a fuckton of corpses?

Yes you are

I mean, China's growing in power, sure, yeah

They're mostly domestic corpses, even

>domestic corpses

Values is the incorrect term
The correct wording should be self pride

- you

anywho

What I'm trying to point out

is that you shouldn't be proud your nation killed a fuck ton of people

They put Muslims in concentration camps, but it's okay because they're within their borders @SilverLining

Right?

in fact, you shouldn't be proud

No, ofc not

I'm not defending these corpses at all

You implied that it wasn't as bad

Not really

Do you think that?

no

Alright, well you did, but I think after I pointed out what you said, you realize how fucking retarded it was.

Moving on

Anyway

brb for a sec

and no, I didn't

"What I'm trying to point out
is that you shouldn't be proud your nation killed a fuck ton of people"

You shouldn't , correct, but you shouldn't hate yourself for something your ancestors did when tons of other nations tried the same thing @SilverLining

I referred to domestic corpses to point out how it's not on the same scope

not on the same scale

This whole side-argument is pointless

It's a whataboutism

It's not

You also, again

said

"Values is the incorrect term
The correct wording should be self pride"

implying nations should have pride in their ancestors

You're simply trying to get out of defending your cognitive dissonance

which raped, pillaged, and murdered plenty of others

And what did I just say in response?

""What I'm trying to point out
is that you shouldn't be proud your nation killed a fuck ton of people"

You shouldn't , correct, but you shouldn't hate yourself for something your ancestors did when tons of other nations tried the same thing"

That is why other nations were brought in