religion is not really right or left... its mainly authoitarian

theres nothing economic about religion

And that is where we are at now. The Authoratarisns vs. the Libertarians.

yup

its not left v right

its A v L

Agreed

I think people misunderstand that

But if you dare say that in most places someone will pretend you're talking about the Libertarian party rather than libertarian values

correct

and nearly all european leaders are on the right side of the spectrum

collectivism vs individualism

is actually a better way to look at it

look how far merkel is to the right

C vs I.

Bestest.

authoritarian right

they may have elements of socialism... but they are absolutely capitalist first

oh yeah

most of the EU is capatalism first

Capatlist Socialists and Anti-capatlist Socialists.

the only way that socialist programs are supported is throught he back of captalist prosperity

soemthing somewhere has to pay for it

so either you flatten the hierarchy

or you have hierarchy funding the safetly nets

You can;t force Goverment to pay for everything. And you can;t have Goverment force to pay you everything.

I got called a 'radical individualist' by a family member recently for saying that splitting everyone up by race to determine privilege is a poor way to do things because it's going to create division and does a poor job at accurately predicting an idividual's experiences

conservatives are the new liberals (of the past) for the most part. so you can see how there are right-wing liberals as an accurate description of some of them too

don't you know

the parties switched

so it was really the democrats that freed the slaves

😃

I need to switch bodies then. haha

'the coastal strategy'

how many republican politicians were assassinated by the kkk again?

over a hundred or so?

That's racist. lol

and zero democrats

https://twitter.com/Ocasio2018/status/1015968113832185856

this is a "stellar" read

who wrote amendment 13... republican 😛

BUT THEY SWITCHED

around the time of who the hell knows when

classical liberalism... generally starting with Adam Smith and so on of the original classial liberals

or perhaps in Britain even before that?

they didnt really "switch" bcuz the racist south just become less and less racist to the point now that deep south conservatives will now predictably favor a black conservative over a white liberal

I believe the first act to stop slavery was around 1773 or something in the UK

and then a final act in 1808 to spend a fortune on the navy to stop it worldwide

not to mention Dinesh D'Souza goes into detail about how the switch from majority blacks to the democratic party far outdated the so called "switch" from taking place

God, I hate how people on both sides conflate Social Democracy and Democratic Socialism, with people are pro-socialism say "oh, you want health care? That means you want Socialism!" and people who are against welfare saying "We can't institute government assistance programs because that's Socialism and Socialism is evil".

really gets my goat

Dinesh D'Souza and Cenk debated about that once at Politicon

I am pro-Health. Less regulations and taxes regarding health.

Health is a human right. But not a Constitutional right.

so the Dems were behind enacting the Jim Crow laws, etc

Both Abortion and Health care decisions should be done at the state level.

Life, is an unalienable right according to the Declaration of Independence, and health has overlap with that.

and they were against repealing the Jim Crow laws too .... that was NOT TOO long ago.....

Does Life mean the protection of your Health or your protection of Living?

health doesn't have to overlap with that

at least not in the way you're arguing

because does your right to health require someone else to intervene against their will?

i.e. a health professional?

do you have a "right" to their services?

and if so, where do you draw the line

Not all health does; like being overweight doesn't mean my right to life gives me the right to a gym, but in certain cases their are solid libertarian arguments for healthcare

do you have a right to a plumber's services to fix your sewage line because it can spread disease?

that is, right because nobody has the right to prevent you from seeking it and for making your own health choices and decisions w/o having somebody be forced to pay for wreckless choices of others' health lifestyle/choices/decisions

for the record, I'm not totally against a single payer / safety net type system

I'm not just not sure what it should be, for the US

I'm not for it either

well... there are private healthcare clinics already available out there..... so of course healthcare is part of the natural organic market economy

And I certainly don't know the right way to implement such systems, and wouldn't want a poorly thought out system to be implemented just in the pursuit of progress

exactly

a solid libertarian case for forcing a doctor to care for you against their will?

there isn't one

No one said there was one.

Don't pretend people are saying what they're not.

I also think a single payer system will stifle health-related research progress

"their are solid libertarian arguments for healthcare"

given that the context was about healthcare being a human right, care to explain how that wouldn't mean a doctor would be forced to care for you?

People are self servng, they want to make money and as much of it.. healthcare is lucrative and that attracks thos ethat can spend r&d money

Because literally no one said anything about forcing someone to do work. I meant it being paid for through taxes.

Libertarian doesn't mean anarchy. Thomas Paine is frequently sited as a libertarian, and he was in favor of UBI.

here's about as socialist as I'll go.. I don't think that anyone in a country as weathly as ours should have their entire lives ruined, financially, etc, because they get unlucky with something health related, ie. cancer

I just don't know what the answer is on that

yeah, that would be like a VERY "positivistic" health care because they would just MAGICALLY give themselves the right to impose medical procedures onto YOU whether you like it or not

Nothing socialist about that if you ask me.

A voluntrarily "pay for what you want into it" healthcare system?

pay whsat you want never works

people don't want to pay

note that i edited "healthcare" with medical procedures....

Not a HSA but sort of alike a Volunteer Medicare for all. You are not forced, but if you want to, you can pay into it as a whole.

wont work either

thats basically obamacare

because to call medical services stuff "healthcare" is a misnomer as they really only manage illness, diseases, and injuries

health insurance companies are part of the problem with inflated prices in the US. which is just another reason obamacare was a flop

only you can decide to choose healthy living and well being to take premeptive care of your health into your own hands

im also not against people make money

buuut

I do have a moral delimma of people making money over someone elses misery