Atkins, if you want to be a rightist you can go ahead. I don't think anyone here is going to stop you.

The way you go about it is by encouraging fixing the process

Like: defeat identity politics.

No, no, that's not what I mean

Then you specify strategy and tactics to acheive that goal.

And then also supporting police so that the quality level of law enforcement improves

You just do a bit of sales work to the left is all

@pratel if you are fundamentally opposed to identitarians, you don't need to appeal to them. But the conservatives arent opposed to social liberals

There's a very ass-backwards thought process going on here. Basically 'defeat the left by becoming indistinguishable from them'.

In the NRA article, the objective is to ban firearms. To do that you attack the NRA and exploit the shooting for play. The tactic is to plan ahead have talking points and contacts.

Fight them by supporting them.

No it isn't lol

@Abel I'm not sure if that's going to be true in the future.

The political bases are shifting.

It's not what I'm discussing anyway.

That's *electoral victory*

I'm talking *overton window victory*

Like, as a right winger, you have a lot in common with Tim pool and Sargon

Sure.

But that's not my point.

>police brutality is shit makes you a full blown commie
Doesn't matter if claims are bullshit some % of the time because improving the process of investigation helps you *prove that* @Atkins

I'm talking about taking the stuff that I might have in common and trying to say the need and means to push those commonalities into the broarder culture.

In my opinion, Authoritarian and Libertarian break down into tactics.

Authoritarian calls for Policy to dictate Culture

It's also a good method by which to improve funding for an underfunded sector

🤔

Libertarian calls for Culture to dictate Policy.

And improve the PR of an org that is understaffed regularly

@RyeNorth Yes. And you've been outflanked by the authoritarians. They took the cultural institutions and control the culture. Now what will you do?

*you must retake the culture*

STAND UP FIGHT BACK

sorry.

uh

How?

That's the problem.

That was an SJW protest line.

@Beemann if you protest police brutality you are going to be walking arm-in-arm with morons screeching 'fuck da poleese' and 'the only good cops are dead cops'. At no point are you going to have a rally where some reasonable nuanced stance against an admittedly small number of cases of abuse is taken. It'll be extremists and you'll be helping them.

And the libertarian instinct is to fight with each other as much against the authoritarians.

You're making a lefty argument

Lol

"If you believe X and a Notzee believes X you are associated with Notzees"

The first step is to fucking speak up when people are lying.

Who do you legitimately believe are going to show up to a rally against police brutality?

You appeal to the moderates and take away their support

Something I do to BOTH sides when I see it.

Lots of people lol

Lots of moderates and centrists, as well as socialists

The Right has a history of being reactionary

@RyeNorth ok. But you're confronting forces looking to tear out your tongue.

That's actually a big part of the problem.

IMO.

And you undermine the socialists by outdoing them while not undermining the institution

It'll look like something from Ferguson.

Outing does nothing if they control the institution.

You're incredibly naive.

Instead of staking out our grounds, we give in fear of labels.

@Beemann You out them, everyone says "lol, who isn't" and you get canned.

Atkins, your defestism is starting to make you sound indistuingishable from certain leftists I've heard talk.

>outing
Did you misread?

I guess I did.

What is "outdoing" then?

They control the metrics. The metric is "be the best socialist"

My point is, *you can't fight alone*

I'm not defeatist. I just don't want to become a leftist. I don't want to protest police brutality, I don't want to wave signs and chant, I don't want to adopt their tactics.

Oh hell no you can't. You right.

I can be in an argument in a digital public square

*sigh* @Atkins You're too black and white.

just wondering

You guys can go do what you think is best, but I don't think you're going to get much conservative support for this kind of crap.

how many people are reading my counterarguments

nodding and agreeing

and not speaking the fuck up

I agree.

Arguments matter. Alot.

But at the same time, the platforms themselves are under attack.

I'm not saying might equals right or any such shit

Brb 30min

but if it's 8 people going round and round on a conservative fending off arguments

Which is why this social media censorship matters so much.

Yeah, I know Rye, it's hard. And tiring.

They can SEE that nobody's speaking with them.

But it's a limited impact at most.

Atkins, I know what you need to do. Collect a group of conservatives. Purchase some land and start your own city.

***hits bong***
Just like start your own country bro...

@RyeNorth And it also signals to the bystander that you're the outcast.

That said, this is the kind of thing the social justice types--the original ones who really made positive changes--did. They showed up and made their points anytime and anywhere they could.

You could start your own county if you'd like. Country might be hard to do.

Or, what, did leftists found every city in the United States of America?

It doesn't matter either if you just get attacked.

Or higher powers come in and impose their will on you.

I haven't had a chance to use it

That's a big part of why I think the culture war is so all-or-nothing at this point. Because it is.

but I've seen someone use one particular bit...

Warning the people they're debating with to stop trying to use our own values against us.

I.E. 'Racist, Sexist, etc..'

Those labels only have a sting because you care.

No, they do have a purpose.

You make them bad labels and tar your opponents with them. It influences the observers

it's an attack on crediblity.

In part

Psychology research has shown it is as effective if not more than attacks on arguments.