@Kylo Ren I'm talking about per capita

They don't have more money due to lower taxes, the overwhelming majority of the tax cuts went to the rich

Sure Kylo

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/19/two-charts-demolish-the-notion-that-immigrants-here-illegally-commit-more-crime/?utm_term=.fed03aad6ebc

What difference? That they do it less often?

Btw, I think I'm going to leave this server soon, so if any of you want to keep in touch, DM me

Again, this isn't debatable. Republicans wouldn't sign a bill that doesn't defund the ACA, just like they aren't signing a bill that doesn't fund the wall. There's a reason the Republicans were the ones who caved, and the American people supported Obama

According to that chart, native born Americans commit 25% more crime than undocumented immigrants. That's not a small difference. And even if it were exactly the same, that would still prove my point

Most of the tax cuts went to the rich, this is just a fact. In fact, 10 years from now, taxes are expected to be increased on people making less than $75k

No, how would that mean that Dems are doing the same thing as Republicans? Republicans were the ones who said refused to pass a bill that doesn't defund the ACA. Now they are refusing to pass a bill without funding for the wall. They were using government workers to get their political agenda through both times

That wasn't a generalization, the American people sided with Obama at the time according to the polls

So millions of people should be deported because a tiny amount of them, in fact, far less than native born citizens, commited murder? How is that logical in any way?

Lol, the corporate tax cut was cut from 35% to 21%. I guess that wasn't enough. The statutory rate isn't the only thing that matters, there are a lot of factors we need to take into account, and every study that did that showed that over ten years, Americans making less than $75k would pay more in taxes. And even if we go by the statutory rate, our tax cuts have a sunset provision.

Lol, those polls are their approval rating

And native born citizens have 4 out of 100k per population. By your standard, that is more than quite big

What I'm trying to understand is, what is the downside in having them here. Why are you guys so obsessed with deporting immigrants so that they can die in their home country

Republicans didn't make the tax cuts permanent.

Kylo, I think it's better if we stick to one subject at a time (and I'm glad strider agrees), so I'll tag you once we move on to immigration

They did not

That only passed the House

That only passed the House

Are you from the U.S.?

No, it wasn't

It needs to pass the House and the Senate

It didn't

In order for a bill to become law, the House and senate need to pass it, then they need to reconcile and pass it again, then the president has to sign it

It passed the House, then nothing happened

https://tenor.com/view/bernie-finger-wave-wave-speech-campaign-gif-5290278

It didn't pass the senate

You stated that those studies are wrong because they passed a bill to make it permanent, while it only passed House

Dude, I already responded to this, and your response was that it's different because the tax cuts were permanent

This is going to go in a circle

I already explained that studies that take everything into account, including CBO studies, show that people making less than $75k will pay more in taxes by 2027, which is also when the cuts on the working class expire

I'm not talking about now, I'm talking about 2027

Right now, people do get minor tax cuts

But almost all the tax cuts also go to the rich

80% of the tax cuts go to the top 1%. This was a tax cut for the rich, with some minor temporary tax cuts for the working class

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/12/18/16791174/republican-tax-bill-congress-conference-tax-policy-center

I mean, the rich own 90% of the wealth, so you would expect them to pay more in taxes

No, it's possible to just give tax cuts to the working class

You can keep the same tax rate for the rich, and also cut taxes for the working class. It's not that hard

By 2027 taxes would be increased on the working class. Clearly this isn't going anywhere, so we should move on to immigration

I don't know what you mean by "concede" in this context, but I already said that we would get some minor taxes at the beginning.

minor tax cuts*

Most of the tax cuts went to the rich. That's what I said.

I guess he cut spending then

Unless he also increased taxes on working people

No

Well, it depends

I do think tax cuts on working people can increase revenue

Mhm, you can cut spending instead of taxes

But I would rather increase taxes on the rich without cutting important programs

No...

Tax revenue goes up every year

I mean, we also had very large growth in the 50's and 60's

But it leads to a boom bust cycle, but we've already been over that

And another point I forgot to mention is, that GDP and unemployment isn't the only important metric, another very important metric is wages

GDP per capita isn't really that good

IT's an average, not median

Wages were keeping up with productivity until the 70's and 80's, when we had the oil crisis and supply side economics

And the destruction of unions

It started in the 70's with the oil crisis, and started to expand in the 80's

The 80's is when the difference really grew

Lol, I didn't say that

Nevermind, I can see how you could misunderstand what I said

I was saying that in the 70's, it started to stop keeping up with productivity due to the oil and inflation crisis, and then it really started to diverge a lot from the 80's+

Let's move on to immigration

Ok dude

So why are you guys so obsessed with undocumented immigrants? How do they negatively impact your life, and the country in general?

I'll explain what I would like to do with immigration

My ideal solution is that if undocumented immigrants have been in the country for more than a year without committing crime, then we grant them amnesty. If they have been here for less than a year, without committing crime, then we should give them a workers VISA. If they have committed serious crime, then they should be deported. Then, I would like to take in more refugees from Central America. After that, we can have tough border security, which does not mean a wall because that wouldn't do anything.

Is that unreasonable?

What do you mean "pay for illegals"? @Kylo Ren

I have to leave soon, and I don't want to have the same debate we had before, especially when we both know it isn't going anywhere

We already talked about this like two different times

Nothing new or interesting will come out of this debate

Dude, these are the exact same questions you asked me before, and the same questions I already answered

No Kylo

Kylo, that costs you almost no money

It's not like they are always taken to the hospital

Is that not a rhetorical question?

Why's that

How does it cause wages to go down

How does that lower wages

How does a larger population decrease wages

It's not about them being a poor person. It's about their life being in danger

They have no other choice but to come here Kyle

I was responding to him Strider

But why would more workers lead to lower wages

Explain the process to me

Kylo, it can take years to get in here legally, and a lot of times they don't have the resources to do so or find out how to do so

That's prices, that's not how it works with population

It's not like the corporation don't have enough money to pay all their workers a living wage

So you want them to die, Kylo

That's not how it works, it's not like corporations don't have enough money to go around

They will hire as many workers as they can afford

Ok, then at least be honest and say that you want them to die because they don't have the resources to come here legally

My argument is factually correct

Strider, that's not how it works

It's not like they would just higher more workers than they need