Message from @Roland
Discord ID: 519684058851049483
Bvgman, issue #356, Will Bvgman Leave the Basement
Aw that’s cute
Omg
Thank you @Asatru Artist - MD
I was red-pulling a relative today: he was fairly receptive. Of course I had to measure my words carefully and I had to be careful not to use the word “white” anywhere:
"It's true that this country was a country of immigrants"
let me stop you right there
"This country was built by European immigrants"
again, no.
Yeah, the term immigrants would imply that there was already a nation here
it's better to agree and amplify, focus on the demographics imo
"Who were these immigrants? Let's take a look at the laws"
It's important to be accurate about what we were. Conquerors and pioneers that created a nation. Not immigrants.
What about the Irish who built the railroads and such?
I would classify them as immigrants
I'm not Irish lol, but yes the Irish were immigrants.
Anyone after laws were established are immigrants.
@Sam Southern - TN I know you have a very black-and-white view on this topic and you and I disagree on this. There were indeed European immigrants.
Europeans that came in the 20s and 30s and 40s did not come on the mayflower
The country wasn't built by immigrants. That's just not accurate
@Sam Southern - TN alright Sam.
both white immigrants and white pioneers
Immigrants did strengthen this country. To a certain point.
Sometimes you have to go easy with people and you have to build on what they already believe and we were not talking about the settlers and the frontiers. We were talking about his grandparents and great grandparents who came to this country
oh okay
^ yes. I said to a certain point. I meant long before we accepted others.
The question is fundamentally to what extent do we credit the settling generations with "building" the country. Obviously, settlers and pioneers claimed the entire continent and the original, largely Anglo, core of the country founded the US. Yet, one could definitely argue that the later waves of European arrivals continued to "build" the country. That's not to say the founding generations were somehow lacking. This is only a result of the timing of the industrial revolution to a degree.
My great grandparents were “immigrants”. There is an issue of nomenclature around the term “immigrants”.
Yes @Lily Lee - NJ
The term immigrant is not necessarily a negative term. It has become a negative term in modern times because of what’s happening with this wave of immigration. But the settlers and the frontiers while they have paved the way and created a nation, were not the only contributors to what this nation has become. But I know Sam will continue to disagree with me..
Yes, an issue of nomenclature, as I said. Like much being shoved down our throat today. Feminism. Equality. Immigrants. Racism. Fascist. Nazi. We don’t have an agreed upon definition for these (and many other) terms. This is a big part of the problem.
No one knows what anything means, we are so far removed from reality.
we can compromise and say both the settlers and the later european immigrants helped build it
These conversations are silly and unproductive if we don’t have a set definition for the terms we are debating on. In this case, “immigrants”.
I very much share Sam Southern's view on immigrant/builders/settlers. Interesting I was just listening to an interview with Faith and Heritage guys and they succinctly summarized my view on it. The interview can be heard here if your curious:
https://identitydixie.com/2018/11/26/rebel-yell-225-nathanael-strickland-faith-heritage/
I would define immigrants as people who move to an already established nation to live there. So I'd say anyone who arrived after the US became an independent nation is an immigrant, anyone before that, a settler/colonist
Anyone in IE whose grandparents or great-grandparents came here from Europe are a result of European immigrants. And I think it’s wonderful
^ that’s me.
Well unless you’re an Amerindian I think everyone has had grandparents or great-grandparents who came from Europe
Proud Native America here. Amerindians aren’t natives.