Message from @Undead Mockingbird

Discord ID: 497750487580409856


2018-10-05 12:38:51 UTC  

Nope. They believe in something usually called "fairness" in the literature.

2018-10-05 12:38:55 UTC  

What are we doing to so-called adults to miswire their brains that badly then?

2018-10-05 12:39:10 UTC  

Which is closer to equal rewards for equal precieved effort.

2018-10-05 12:39:16 UTC  

Which is what most adults want too.

2018-10-05 12:39:18 UTC  

offer them "free money"

2018-10-05 12:39:26 UTC  

Yes, that I can have some sympathy for.

2018-10-05 12:39:54 UTC  

Equality of outcome is very convenient for people who do statistics (it's relatively easy to test) and bureaucrats (you get paid on the plan)

2018-10-05 12:40:07 UTC  

I think equal rewards for equal perceived effort is evil

2018-10-05 12:40:10 UTC  

I think there are also very strange misperceptions of where prices come from.

2018-10-05 12:40:15 UTC  

It's also convenienent for people who don't really want to work or otherwise obsess over equality.

2018-10-05 12:40:22 UTC  

Yes PERCEIVED effort, that would be a bad thing.

2018-10-05 12:40:28 UTC  

But not as bad as equality of outcome.

2018-10-05 12:40:40 UTC  

Your perception might be off, but at least you are TRYING to do the right thing.

2018-10-05 12:40:42 UTC  

The vast majority of people don't have even a cursory understanding of economics.

2018-10-05 12:40:52 UTC  

CA and NYC are looking at rent control again, for example.

2018-10-05 12:41:02 UTC  

With equality of outcome, you are not even TRYING to do the right thing.

2018-10-05 12:41:12 UTC  

Equal reward for equal value generation.

2018-10-05 12:41:29 UTC  

So the thing about perceived effort is that people don't even realize it's the perception.

2018-10-05 12:41:31 UTC  

Yes, and that comparative value is measured through prices.

2018-10-05 12:41:50 UTC  

If two things have the same price, it is supposed to mean that, by and large, people would be willing to exchange the two.

2018-10-05 12:42:43 UTC  

And if it is not the case for you, you can exchange the thing of higher price for cash and buy the other item that is priced the same, but which you value less.

2018-10-05 12:42:46 UTC  

If they believe that there is good reason to trust what people say about effort, they'll bite.

The problem is that "equal effort for equal reward" (the actual ideal) is marred the fact specialization hides the effort alot of people put into things and the fact that not all labor is equal.

2018-10-05 12:43:06 UTC  

Capitalists trust price signals. Communists don't.

2018-10-05 12:43:12 UTC  

Heres a missing concept people often overlook

Leftwingers see "time spent" as the value
Rightwngers see "resource contributed" as the value

If a person works 1 hour on a machine, to create 10x the product
One side wants them paid for 1 hour
The other wants them paid 10x for the resource

And since they see Rich people as working just as long as minimum wage people
Equality of outcome seems fair to them

2018-10-05 12:43:24 UTC  

I often hear the rhetoric question "How do you put a price on X?" Well, the same way you put a price on anything else!

2018-10-05 12:43:34 UTC  

Competitive bidding

2018-10-05 12:43:55 UTC  

Kind of.

2018-10-05 12:44:13 UTC  

The value of a thing is whatever people would be willing to exchange it for.

2018-10-05 12:44:14 UTC  

@Dr.Wol It's worse than that. You know why the USSR and China didn't get along? Mao believed agricultural labor was more representative of the working class. Stalin believed that was industrial labor. They didn't get along.

2018-10-05 12:44:25 UTC  

And that's endemic everywhere on the left.

2018-10-05 12:44:31 UTC  

It doesn't matter if the monetary price has a few more zeroes or not.

2018-10-05 12:45:02 UTC  

You can print as much money as you want, but in a decently working market economy, things of equal value will end up with around the same price.

2018-10-05 12:45:18 UTC  

Alright you guys, start fightin'.

2018-10-05 12:45:28 UTC  

We're trying.

2018-10-05 12:45:32 UTC  

Michigan Union types think Californian Actors Guild members are lazy bumfucks who get all the accolades for doing nothing valuable. The Californain Actor Guilds think the Automakers union members are deplorables.

2018-10-05 12:45:33 UTC  

But we haven't had enough beer, yet.

2018-10-05 12:45:46 UTC  

And where are the ice cubes to throw at each other?!

2018-10-05 12:45:48 UTC  

This should help.

2018-10-05 12:45:51 UTC  

What kind of mosh pit is this?!

2018-10-05 12:45:58 UTC  

@Undead Mockingbird Exactly. Money isn't the important signal. It's all in the relative pricing of resources.